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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 14, 2019 11:21:45 GMT
Have you tried the Hermit? What are your experiences with him? Is he worth taking up your merc slot?
I just purchased him at GenCon, and on paper I like him. Telemetry (+2 to magic attacks on models within 8”), -2 ARM debuff (affects friendlies, but okay), and one Get Out of Jail Free Card per game.
At a 2 point savings, I think I need to seriously consider him for Wolves of Winter, which would seems to get the most benefit from him. He can randomly keep one model alive once per game, and the Graylords... and, say, Sorscha or Zerkova, love Telemetry. The doomreavers didn’t care about the ARM debuff on themselves but like other things to be squishy.
Thoughts?
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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2019 13:40:17 GMT
I'm actually not sold on him over Alexia2 in Wolves of winter because the list is just way too fast for him, sure telemetry is cool, but it's on a spd 5 model trying to follow spd 9 (with possible apparition) models, by the time he's close enough for telemetry I think you'll have either won, or your outriders will be dead. Alexia2 doesn't have an issue with keeping up with the reavers and outriders to get souls. For me, he's going to be mostly a Warrior of the old faith and Flame in the dark model. The reposition on the cavalry models help staying out of his -2 armor bubble and dash speeds him up, in flames, well the army is slower than wolves, charging precursor love the -2 armor and don't really care about it in return. Flames even allow you to take both the hermit and Alexia2 in the same list (yeah that theme is pretty bonkers, too bad we really have only the one caster for it, not sure I'd count Zerkova2 as a contender here). He's also a great option in winterguard kommand, but with the new toys I don't think I'll play that theme anytime soon. Armored corps doesn't really like him, telemetry is not going to be that useful, and the -2 arm is a big no here. Jaws seems to have the same issues.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 14, 2019 16:00:27 GMT
I would like to get him to work. At this point I think his best option would be Butcher3 (but since I love Butcher this is ALWAYS my answer to most questions ;-)
1) the Arm buff is situationally more useful than dark shroud on ragman. Rags can get it on 9 inches plus any of the whole applied via a friendly in his range. Hermit for a straight 5 inch move; 5 inch bubble. Probably ends up being usually about the same But there could be a couple of instances where it matters......
2) Such as the Butcher 3 assassination run when all else fails - the double boosted obliterations when you can't otherwise win. Cranking those -2 ARM feels OK. You also could sometimes use telemetry at the point that Butcher can't really (or shouldn't) charge something but doesn't really need to camp. RNG 12 Oblits can do SOME work ;-).....
3) His "one attack doesn't do damage" ability could be another way of layering on defense for Butcher - something the big guy loves given how aggressive he likes to play.
One other option here is Sorscha1. Getting her to effective Magic Ability 8 on freezing Grips which are extended to RNG 10 with the adjunct feels....well....good. You probably are hitting nearly everything in the game with that. Then lets put her in Wolves (a great theme for her IMHO). So now we can put in 2 Void Archons which can crank damage and would benefit from Fog. They don't benefit from telemetry but you can, if you can pull it off, get a -6 ARM swing (Hermit, Brittle frost, Dark Shroud). Nothing says I love you than Doomreavers hitting at effective POW 18. Indeed, once I get the Voids (now at the end of the post) this is the place I think I will try him [and like Butcher3, sorsha loves to be up the field - just unlike the big boy he can be hit)
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Post by borderprince on Aug 14, 2019 16:25:40 GMT
... Nothing says I love you than Doomreavers hitting at effective POW 18. This is really bad relationship advice. Have you tried chocolates instead? They might be more favourably received.
I take all of sand20go's points for Sorscha1. My concerns are (i) like auraco, he gets outpaced by the rest of the list; and related but different (ii) he has to get close to do his thing. That is more challenging if the list is fast, and risks leaves him vulnerable to the counter-strike. I think it will take table time to see whether he can do enough after a counter-strike (I'm concerned that while he will probably survive, he might be boxed in and unable to leverage abilities as I want).
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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2019 16:31:36 GMT
Don't get me wrong, it's an incredible solo that will see a lot of play from everyone. But that being said, I don't think he's an auto include for all our list right off the bat, just some of them.
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Post by michael on Aug 14, 2019 16:33:17 GMT
I think I am glad he is a metal model. He looks easy to paint.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on this guy so far.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 14, 2019 16:48:01 GMT
... Nothing says I love you than Doomreavers hitting at effective POW 18. This is really bad relationship advice. Have you tried chocolates instead? They might be more favourably received.
I take all of sand20go 's points for Sorscha1. My concerns are (i) like auraco , he gets outpaced by the rest of the list; and related but different (ii) he has to get close to do his thing. That is more challenging if the list is fast, and risks leaves him vulnerable to the counter-strike. I think it will take table time to see whether he can do enough after a counter-strike (I'm concerned that while he will probably survive, he might be boxed in and unable to leverage abilities as I want). Is he really THAT slow? Sure, he is PROBABLY running 10 inches turn one. But since he is "the Book" it is a huge investment of resources to shoot at him. He has an effective telemetry range actually BIGGER than the adjunct's +2 RNG or eyeless site range (I always find that bugger to be fiddly and requires me to burn clock to figure out the right place for him). The "balancing" thing is his anti-arm bubble - which is just a static 10 inches. AND....in some ways....you can run him really agressively into Hordes - because you REALLY don't want to kill him and have a beast within 8 inches. Now arguably you just ignore him - but that sorta means he isn't "slow" (10 inch movement). I think it comes down to match ups and, as noted above, table time to figure out whether for 5 points he is actually that disruptive.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Aug 14, 2019 21:56:47 GMT
I think I am glad he is a metal model. He looks easy to paint. That pretty much sums up my thoughts on this guy so far. He is actually super easy to paint. He is hood-up, and like 85% cloak.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 15, 2019 0:33:26 GMT
Couple of more cute interactions (hat tip to retribution facebook forums for pointing out).....have hermit activate first and then use either Gun Carriage or Siege tanker to slam him further forward. Good times (in retribution land they are thinking about bashee shots/TK
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Aug 15, 2019 0:40:31 GMT
I don't think he'll get much play in our High Armor Themes like Legos, ArmCorp or Jaws (unless your running a Kayazy spam list of sorts). WGK and Wolves should find use for him since screwing your own guy's ARM is not a big deal in those lists. That said, I'm leaning more towards playing with Void Archon in a merc slot, and even considering Void + Thamarite in Wolves. I'll definitely buy him though, cause my Infernal army will abuse him
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 15, 2019 0:58:34 GMT
Ganso, the Void archon will never take a merc slot. She’s only available in Wolves and is a listed model so you can do double Voids. sand20go, OK that’s some sick thinking, but I think you want to go with Marauder for the win sine a POW 20 combo smite is going to get the little bastard up 1d6” (or 1d6+2 if you had Assail up), and you’re only doing 1 point of damage. I’m just now appreciating how awesome the 17” circle of “no casting/channeling spells, no being forced”. That’s...really neat. As for the question “is he too slow”? Hmmm...not for me. But, I’m the guy who often finds that the melee jacks I brought with my Wolves list are seeing play to help me close out a game. That meant the little guy rus to 17” on turn 1, and gets midfield turn 2 (maybe doing work, maybe not). Buuut, that means you opponent already lost or he’s helping you out in a nice way Turn 3 and 4, and for that he’s worth it. To all those people who are bringing at least one unit of Ternion, if not 2 or 3, then isn’t he pure gold? I think everyone who plays Wolves has gotten work done with the Koldun Lord, so you just found another Telemetry BFF. Yeah, Alexia 2 is a lot to give up so I don’t think it’s a slam dunk. But I don’t think speed dismisses him. If you thought that, why did you pack Kolduns?
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Post by steeltitan on Aug 21, 2019 11:26:17 GMT
Playing mostly jack in Jaws, i see the hermit mostly as a kick in the nuts.
I dont need him much but everyone will have an easier time removing my boxes.
I dread seeing him appear in Crucible Guard buddys army. More ARM debuff yay.
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 21, 2019 11:56:58 GMT
Playing mostly jack in Jaws, i see the hermit mostly as a kick in the nuts. I dont need him much but everyone will have an easier time removing my boxes. I dread seeing him appear in Crucible Guard buddys army. More ARM debuff yay. Remember that he only has a 10" threat on Word of Ruin now, rather than the 15" from the CID. Also worth noting that Jaws has the Widowmaker Marksman, whose Deadly Shot ignores Ancient Shroud as it isn't a damage roll.
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Post by michael on Aug 21, 2019 12:10:46 GMT
It’s wacky that people seem to have forgotten about Widowmakers and how they work!
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Post by cplmustard on Aug 23, 2019 17:46:58 GMT
Any list with a colossal in it can get him 9.5" up the board easy and won't accidentally kill because ancient shroud
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