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Post by hypnotoad on Aug 7, 2019 15:19:07 GMT
Hey, guys. I'm putting together a 75 point list for a casual event at the NOVA Open later this month and I'm looking for suggestions.
Restriction 1) I'd like to play with Trencher Commandos because I've almost finished painting them.
Restriction 2) I'm leaning toward playing some lesser used warcasters: possibly Sturgis or Caine3 but I'm not set on this.
Restriction 3) I'd like to keep the list in theme thematically as possible, probably trencher theme.
This is what I was thinking initially if I can finish off my Stormwall for the convention.
War Room Army
Cygnar - New Army
Theme: Gravediggers 73 / 75 Army
Commander Dalin Sturgis - WJ: +30 - Stormwall - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 30) - Lightning Pod - Grenadier - PC: 9 - Grenadier - PC: 9
Captain Maxwell Finn - PC: 0 Trench Buster - PC: 0 Trench Buster - PC: 0 Patrol Dog - PC: 2
Trencher Commandos - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Officer - PC: 4 Trencher Long Gunners - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18 - Trencher Long Gunner Officer - PC: 4
THEME: Gravediggers ---
GENERATED : 08/07/2019 11:17:40 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
What do you guys think? Any suggestions for other lists?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 7, 2019 23:26:10 GMT
First, you must be aware that the list lacks anti-armor melee solution apart of Stormwall. You have some ranged options so you can cripple a heavy before the engagement but after the enemy is close all you can do is send your Stormwall and repel them. So, protect it for all cost. The good side is, Sturgis have Arcane Shield which covers the theme's huge flaw - lacking Journeyman Warcaster to run the heavy to colossal.
Unless you can get free 3" advance to any direction before charge such as Brisbane2's feat, Trencher Commandos' melee attacks are no in use of anti armor problem, so unless you can ideally circle an enemy hard target and able to charge 5 to 6 troopers at once when you pop the officer's one shot ability you better use them to dispatch the enemy units. Perhaps, sometimes Feat: Dead on Arrival helps to do that, for it may pull some some unfortunated heavy into the killbox you are waited for. So keep in mind too. But... since Sturgis lacks POW buffs it may better to just thtow the grenades.
I assumed that you can't run your jacks properly. Stotmwall needs one focus point to boost the second cannon's damage roll(for its own focus can boost the first one) on range, and both Grenadiers needs two each to boost second and third damage rolls. It leaves you only one focus, but Sturgis have Arcane Shield and Snipe to upkeep. So if you want to use Grenadier to aid anti armor duty what about to take a Trencher Warcaster Lieutenant? I know he is not a popular choice but you will need him in this case.
Otherwise, you better drop Grenadier(s) and replace it to Hunter(s). You have some spare points so it is possible to do. If Hunter seems not fit with the theme but still you can use 11(20) points to elsewhere. A Grenadier seems not so bad, though.
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Post by hypnotoad on Aug 8, 2019 11:46:09 GMT
Thanks for the reply!
I wanted to take some things that benefited from Sturgis's feat. Things that wanted enemies to be clumped together. However, I believe I like your Hunter idea more than taking the Grenadiers.
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Post by michael on Aug 8, 2019 12:41:47 GMT
I would like to chime in and refute the idea that Commandos are useless without a movement buff or that you lack anti-armor melee, and generally disagree with most of what the other guy said. Speaking as an opponent who has played against this, and as someone who has played the Cygnar side too: I disagree. The Commandos’ on-demand Prey makes them unpredictable and something that cannot be dismissed. Likewise, the Trench Busters damage far above their weight class. The only thing I’d say you’re missing is the Express Team, but that is up to you. The Grenadiers are there for mid-to-late game carpet bombing. Your game plan is going to be to use the Long Gunners and Stormwall to soften up the opponent’s armor from waaaaay downtown, thanks to Snipe. You can generally control the point of engagement thanks to AD on the Commandos. Set it up in such away that your Commandos threaten with advance+guns but can’t be reached by a charge or run. Force your opponent to make some bad decisions. Then, you’re going to rely on the Long Gunners to aim + Dual Shot (if at all possible) and clear out the chaff in front of the Commandos so they can dig deep into the enemy’s lines and wreak havoc with Mission Objective + Quick Work. By this point, the opponent’s jacks should be noticeably damaged from a couple turns of long-range shooting. The Grenadiers should be able to aim, get fully loaded up by Sturgis, and drop a bunch of boosted POW 13’s on whatever heavies remain to be shot. Six boosted POW 13’s are likely going to help finish off one or two heavies, so long as you have been concentrating your fire and Shield Guard/Repair/whatever hasn’t been wrecking your plans. Late game, you’re finally going to rely on sending Sturgis in himself with the feat to mess up any screens on their caster, and retain the potential for the surprise assassination. Stormwall should be in a solid position to bully the board with boxes and ARM at this point too. Anyway! This turned out slightly longer than I planned! Gotta run!
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Aug 8, 2019 14:03:00 GMT
I would like to chime in and refute the idea that Commandos are useless without a movement buff or that you lack anti-armor melee, and generally disagree with most of what the other guy said. Speaking as an opponent who has played against this, and as someone who has played the Cygnar side too: I disagree. The Commandos’ on-demand Prey makes them unpredictable and something that cannot be dismissed. Likewise, the Trench Busters damage far above their weight class. The only thing I’d say you’re missing is the Express Team, but that is up to you. The Grenadiers are there for mid-to-late game carpet bombing. Your game plan is going to be to use the Long Gunners and Stormwall to soften up the opponent’s armor from waaaaay downtown, thanks to Snipe. You can generally control the point of engagement thanks to AD on the Commandos. Set it up in such away that your Commandos threaten with advance+guns but can’t be reached by a charge or run. Force your opponent to make some bad decisions. Then, you’re going to rely on the Long Gunners to aim + Dual Shot (if at all possible) and clear out the chaff in front of the Commandos so they can dig deep into the enemy’s lines and wreak havoc with Mission Objective + Quick Work. By this point, the opponent’s jacks should be noticeably damaged from a couple turns of long-range shooting. The Grenadiers should be able to aim, get fully loaded up by Sturgis, and drop a bunch of boosted POW 13’s on whatever heavies remain to be shot. Six boosted POW 13’s are likely going to help finish off one or two heavies, so long as you have been concentrating your fire and Shield Guard/Repair/whatever hasn’t been wrecking your plans. Late game, you’re finally going to rely on sending Sturgis in himself with the feat to mess up any screens on their caster, and retain the potential for the surprise assassination. Stormwall should be in a solid position to bully the board with boxes and ARM at this point too. Anyway! This turned out slightly longer than I planned! Gotta run! Is everything alright, michael? You are giving actually good advice rather than tongue-in-cheek banter. So unlike you!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 8, 2019 14:42:35 GMT
Michael is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get.
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Post by borderprince on Aug 8, 2019 17:23:08 GMT
Michael is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. While I wouldn't be willing to claim philosophical certainty, I think you can be confident that you'll get chocolate in a box of chocolates. Certainly sufficiently certain to be disappointed if you don't get chocolates.
What can we be confident we'll get from Michael?
I do like epistemology.
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Post by elmagnifico on Aug 8, 2019 17:58:50 GMT
Michael is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. While I wouldn't be willing to claim philosophical certainty, I think you can be confident that you'll get chocolate in a box of chocolates. Certainly sufficiently certain to be disappointed if you don't get chocolates.
What can we be confident we'll get from Michael?
I do like epistemology.
Mostly we can be confident of getting words. The content thereof, like the qualities of chocolates in boxes, is what varies.
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Post by michael on Aug 9, 2019 0:50:30 GMT
Mostly, I like telling people they are wrong when they say something wrong.
But usually I am tired of doing that as my day job, so I present myself as an off-kilter humorist who says funny things, as doing so temporarily distracts me from the slow, perpetual slide into cold grey death that awaits us all.
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Post by hypnotoad on Aug 9, 2019 3:16:26 GMT
Well, this thread went off topic fast.
In regards to the list, I'm looking forward to playing pSturgis. He kind of sucks but is super fun to play.
Are Express Teams really that good unbuffed? Am I really going to miss grevious wounds that much?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 9, 2019 7:15:43 GMT
Well, this thread went off topic fast. In regards to the list, I'm looking forward to playing pSturgis. He kind of sucks but is super fun to play. Are Express Teams really that good unbuffed? Am I really going to miss grevious wounds that much? Express Team is purely exist to affect Grievous Wounds&ctiticalknockdown and get the area as a unit. They needs no buff for you will not expect them more. At first unboosted POW 14 is no more than a joke against heavies. It cause average 1.55.. damage on a hit against an ARM 20 target. Also it is very hard to buff ranged damage rolls as you know. Thr gunner's ROF is 1 so he only shoots that weak gun once. So they are not meant to be damaging the enemy armor in distance. Only for against units more guns are better. The other things are what you really need to check. -Thunderbolt&boosted attack roll: Well, push 1d3 is not so noticeable I think, for push is easily blocked by put an another model behind of it. But their very survivable nature and Advanced Deployment may do something Arcane Tempest Gun Mages cannot. And more importantly, the gunner gains boosted attack roll while B2B with his spotter, and Thunderbolt has an another effect - knock the target down on a critical hit. Normally he crits against a Juggernaut by 11%, but with this it is dramatically increased to 42.59% with a boosted attack roll. It is surely a threat for a large base without Steady or its cousin. He needs to be B2B with the spotter but so what... -Very survivable: ..if they are benefit by Cautious Advance and always keep Dug In until they are engaged or the spotter is taken out. -Grievous Wounds: And, I said above that they will not expect to be damaging heavies, but Grievous Wounds affects on a hit, not when cause the damage. It stops the enemy heavy to be repaired or healed. Well, I am not the fan of them and I perfer 1 point expensier Alten Ashley for Grievous Wounds is much more useful against Hordes and he cause additional 1d6 damage to the warbeast, though.
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Post by michael on Aug 11, 2019 17:01:23 GMT
The major “trick” with the weapon crew and Trencher Long Gunners is to use Marksman + damage reroll to blow out a critical system like a cortex or critical weapon system/branch and then tag the heavy with Grievous.
Doubly annoying if you blow out the cortex and get a crit knockdown with Thunderbolt, as you have all but neutered that heavy for a turn.
But, honestly, ranged Grievous with boosted attack rolls on a stick is just good, regardless...
Oh, and something people seem to miss: Cautious Advance can be used to retreat. I have seen people use this and feel like they have to advance forward, closer to the enemy...
You can 100% get in range early, then use this to back up while remaining safe in subsequent turns...
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 11, 2019 18:04:39 GMT
The major “trick” with the weapon crew and Trencher Long Gunners is to use Marksman + damage reroll to blow out a critical system like a cortex or critical weapon system/branch and then tag the heavy with Grievous. Doubly annoying if you blow out the cortex and get a crit knockdown with Thunderbolt, as you have all but neutered that heavy for a turn. But, honestly, ranged Grievous with boosted attack rolls on a stick is just good, regardless... Oh, and something people seem to miss: Cautious Advance can be used to retreat. I have seen people use this and feel like they have to advance forward, closer to the enemy... You can 100% get in range early, then use this to back up while remaining safe in subsequent turns... Yeah, I have been used Cautious Advance on my Trencher Infantry to advance backward occasionally. Both of them are need to be out of the engagement as possible(for Trencher Infantry, at least charge first), it is a useful trick.
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