igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Aug 6, 2019 16:27:40 GMT
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Post by sand20go on Aug 6, 2019 17:14:38 GMT
Sorscha3 in Armored Corps has for the whole year been my second list in combination with Winter Guard Kommand under either Irusk2 or Vlad2. I have been running a record of how Irusk2 has been doing ( here), and how Vlad1 has been doing ( here). For some time I have wanted to do the same for the adventures of Sorscha2. However, it is only recently that I have managed to actually getting the whole list painter; and I refuse to report on anything until everything has been painted  I have already managed to get a few good matches. With hopefully many more to come. I'll be running the same reporting as with Irusk and Vlad; that is in this thread where I'll add battle reports as I get them done. The current Sorcha3 AC list and the rationale behind can be found here: greylordarchives.blogspot.com/2019/08/armored-corps-under-kommandant-sorscha.html. Battle reports: - Against Kallus2 and the Legion abominations: greylordarchives.blogspot.com/2019/08/kommandant-sorscha-kratikoff-sorscha3.html. Sorscha demonstrates that winter is coming.
More battle reports to follow. Until next time. For the Motherland! Can't wait to read! I am a few hours to spend finishing up Victor for getting all my done for painting. Can't wait to try her out again - a fun caster who got some nice Quality of life upgrades with both RQ and then the adjunct. |
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Post by sand20go on Aug 6, 2019 22:47:43 GMT
Very nice write up.
Here is the current list I have been testing....and which I want to get additional reps in to see how it does.
S3
Adjunt
Double Destroyers
Kodiak
Quad Tankers
double Drakhuns
Forge Seer
Shocks+UA+Kovnik
and then the special sauce Eiyrss 1
What this does is try to play the scenario game. Shocks with Iron Flesh and shield wall are EXCEEDING irritating and ridiculously deadly with a Kodiak (or destroyer) to back them up with flank. QUad Tankers are just flat out good - with the Strike Tanker encouraging folks to come to you. Forge seer there to grab a flag and provide extra focus if they go all in. Drakhuns for drakhun counter charge goodness, to provide a contestor (or two) and to apply flank for those places that the Shocks are not.
Finally E1 who is just uber with S3. She keeps the assassination live from 19 from her and 16 from s3 (19 if she can charge). Since Winter's wrath does NOT need to "hit" I have a decent chance of drifting into a warnoun; stripping off focus (and lets not forget Fury); and then shooting with those double boosted destroyers (along with S3's own gun). But if they DON"T provide the assissination run she tag along with S3 - waiting for our girl to winter wrath something and then disrupt it - followe up by this pretty "shooting heavy" army.
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igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Aug 8, 2019 21:17:16 GMT
Thank you. Here is the current list I have been testing....and which I want to get additional reps in to see how it does. S3 Adjunt Double Destroyers Kodiak I have been thinking about Destroyers too. The Bombardiers I'm currently running might be a bit underwhelming. One avenue is double Shocktroopers, but I do like having longer range shooting available. So Destroyers is an option. They just can't really hit anything. At least the Bombardiers can CRA. Quad Tankers double Drakhuns Forge Seer Shocks+UA+Kovnik and then the special sauce Eiyrss 1 What this does is try to play the scenario game. Shocks with Iron Flesh and shield wall are EXCEEDING irritating and ridiculously deadly with a Kodiak (or destroyer) to back them up with flank. I'm also a big fan of Kodiak. QUad Tankers are just flat out good - with the Strike Tanker encouraging folks to come to you. If you promise not to tell, I never really got Strike Tankers. I'm pseudo-happy with the Suppression Tankers; they still die to easily. I know they are only five point, but for one shot per turn. Forge seer there to grab a flag and provide extra focus if they go all in. Drakhuns for drakhun counter charge goodness, to provide a contestor (or two) and to apply flank for those places that the Shocks are not. You don't want Atanas for Tactician? That is a fun combination of Shocktroopers in Shield Wall and Drakhuns counter charging through them. Finally E1 who is just uber with S3. She keeps the assassination live from 19 from her and 16 from s3 (19 if she can charge). Since Winter's wrath does NOT need to "hit" I have a decent chance of drifting into a warnoun; stripping off focus (and lets not forget Fury); and then shooting with those double boosted destroyers (along with S3's own gun). But if they DON"T provide the assissination run she tag along with S3 - waiting for our girl to winter wrath something and then disrupt it - followe up by this pretty "shooting heavy" army. Hmm, interessing... |
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Post by sand20go on Aug 8, 2019 21:30:06 GMT
I have been thinking about Destroyers too. The Bombardiers I'm currently running might be a bit underwhelming. One avenue is double Shocktroopers, but I do like having longer range shooting available. So Destroyers is an option. They just can't really hit anything. At least the Bombardiers can CRA. I found bombers underwhelming with Vlad2. They were just too easy to take off the table at ARM 16. I wanted them to work (cause firing twice with 6 models at POW 14 sounds "GREAT" but they never felt like they earned their points back when I put them on the table). Destroyer can always use focus #1 to boost - and you have a forge seer to hand off a focus to boost damage. Quad Tankers double Drakhuns Forge Seer Shocks+UA+Kovnik and then the special sauce Eiyrss 1 What this does is try to play the scenario game. Shocks with Iron Flesh and shield wall are EXCEEDING irritating and ridiculously deadly with a Kodiak (or destroyer) to back them up with flank. I'm also a big fan of Kodiak. QUad Tankers are just flat out good - with the Strike Tanker encouraging folks to come to you. I you promise not to tell, I never really got Strike Tankers. I'm pseudo-happy with the Suppression Tankers; they still die to easily. I know they are only five point, but for one shot per turn. Forge seer there to grab a flag and provide extra focus if they go all in. Drakhuns for drakhun counter charge goodness, to provide a contestor (or two) and to apply flank for those places that the Shocks are not. You don't want Atanas for Tactician? That is a fun combination of Shocktroopers in Shield Wall and Drakhuns counter charging through them. Yes. But it is a 7 point module for that. It is hard for him to earn his points back - and I always found that Altanas was never where I wanted him - Sp4 and 5 inches for the battle plan was "hard". I guess if only running 1 unit of shocks...but then we start to get into support bloat.Finally E1 who is just uber with S3. She keeps the assassination live from 19 from her and 16 from s3 (19 if she can charge). Since Winter's wrath does NOT need to "hit" I have a decent chance of drifting into a warnoun; stripping off focus (and lets not forget Fury); and then shooting with those double boosted destroyers (along with S3's own gun). But if they DON"T provide the assissination run she tag along with S3 - waiting for our girl to winter wrath something and then disrupt it - followe up by this pretty "shooting heavy" army. Hmm, interessing... ;-) Winters Wrath is too good a spell not to try to leverage. If all you are using S3 for is "flank" (ignoring the +2 to hit) and +2 Speed then inquiring minds want to know why not Karchev. Also gives out countercharge and arguably via R2W makes things as fast. Feat gives you nearly the same damage output. E1 creates a whole new way to play her - using WW+ Disruption for seriously irritating control. Won't work against Gar/Cols but I am not sure we see that much of that into S3 cause you don't want to put a 35 point model into Shocks who then gets trivially removed with flank. |
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igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Aug 20, 2019 16:04:00 GMT
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Post by borderprince on Aug 21, 2019 5:10:43 GMT
Thanks for the report, and congrats. With the benefit of that perfect 20/20 hindsight and not being under any pressure, a few queries/comments:
1 - You say that in your first turn the Shocktroopers received Desperate Pace and advanced in Shieldwall. Why? You opponent had no shooting and wasn't going to be able to get a Turn 1 charge on them. You might get more table presence if you use Desperate Pace and run, or even run the Shocktroopers and either give Desperate Pace elsewhere or just run the Kovnik so he's in a better position in later turns.
2 - For the Bombardiers, might it have been better to deploy them a little more to the left, with some models behind the Shocktroopers and some behind the Demo Corps? I just wonder whether it might be worth treating them as a reserve who can then switch to support whichever unit needs it. Purely hypothetically, that would have enabled you to use a few Bombardiers to take out that surviving Cinerator on the left flank. That positioning might not have been the right call in all games, but in a battle of brick vs brick, it might have been worth thinking about.
3 - Your jacks. The Kodiak doesn't seem to have done much because it was trapped at the back. You mention it screening Sorscha, but against what? Your opponent didn't have shooting. My usual experience is also that it would have been better to have the Kodiak in Beast09's position (fairly far out on the right flank for the zone) and Beast09 more centrally. The Kodiak's a useful piece in scenario play with Vent Steam and throws, but it's also faster if you need to redeploy it. Meanwhile a more central Beast would give you a counter-charge threat who can also Thresher into medium-based Exemplar very effectively (Shield Wall + Defender's Ward Cinerators will survive, but they'll be hurting). In some games it might also mean you get more mileage out of Beast's Shield Guard, but that wouldn't apply here.
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Post by michael on Aug 21, 2019 12:25:43 GMT
Thanks for the report!
I am very glad that you took the time to make a decent write up!
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Post by sand20go on Aug 21, 2019 16:57:11 GMT
Thanks for the report, and congrats. With the benefit of that perfect 20/20 hindsight and not being under any pressure, a few queries/comments:
1 - You say that in your first turn the Shocktroopers received Desperate Pace and advanced in Shieldwall. Why? You opponent had no shooting and wasn't going to be able to get a Turn 1 charge on them. You might get more table presence if you use Desperate Pace and run, or even run the Shocktroopers and either give Desperate Pace elsewhere or just run the Kovnik so he's in a better position in later turns.
2 - For the Bombardiers, might it have been better to deploy them a little more to the left, with some models behind the Shocktroopers and some behind the Demo Corps? I just wonder whether it might be worth treating them as a reserve who can then switch to support whichever unit needs it. Purely hypothetically, that would have enabled you to use a few Bombardiers to take out that surviving Cinerator on the left flank. That positioning might not have been the right call in all games, but in a battle of brick vs brick, it might have been worth thinking about.
3 - Your jacks. The Kodiak doesn't seem to have done much because it was trapped at the back. You mention it screening Sorscha, but against what? Your opponent didn't have shooting. My usual experience is also that it would have been better to have the Kodiak in Beast09's position (fairly far out on the right flank for the zone) and Beast09 more centrally. The Kodiak's a useful piece in scenario play with Vent Steam and throws, but it's also faster if you need to redeploy it. Meanwhile a more central Beast would give you a counter-charge threat who can also Thresher into medium-based Exemplar very effectively (Shield Wall + Defender's Ward Cinerators will survive, but they'll be hurting). In some games it might also mean you get more mileage out of Beast's Shield Guard, but that wouldn't apply here.
+1. But also gets at GitGud 2.0 - so much of a key to this game at the higher levels is knowing what THEIR guys do.....to execute this stuff it is critical to understand the recursion engine they have and the lack of shooting in his list. Just an observation about both the write up and then this post (which was done in the best of intentions). Moral of the story - study not just khador stuff but other stuff as well. #knowyourenemy |
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Post by auraco on Aug 21, 2019 17:28:19 GMT
#KnowEverything
Yeah knowing what the other guy can do is as critical as knowing what your own stuff can do. Playing against an opponent with a melee centric army is very different from playing against a lot of guns.
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igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Aug 24, 2019 12:48:10 GMT
Thanks for the report, and congrats. With the benefit of that perfect 20/20 hindsight and not being under any pressure, a few queries/comments:
Thank you, 20/20 hindsight is always a good thing. One of the reasons I do these reports 1 - You say that in your first turn the Shocktroopers received Desperate Pace and advanced in Shieldwall. Why? You opponent had no shooting and wasn't going to be able to get a Turn 1 charge on them. You might get more table presence if you use Desperate Pace and run, or even run the Shocktroopers and either give Desperate Pace elsewhere or just run the Kovnik so he's in a better position in later turns.
That is a valid question. I should of course have just run the Shocktroopers forward. I have to admit it was a bit (too) worried about the shooting capabilities of the Shrine (in particular the extra Spray). Also, when in doubt I fall back on standard solutions, which is DP and advance in Shield Wall. 2 - For the Bombardiers, might it have been better to deploy them a little more to the left, with some models behind the Shocktroopers and some behind the Demo Corps? I just wonder whether it might be worth treating them as a reserve who can then switch to support whichever unit needs it. Purely hypothetically, that would have enabled you to use a few Bombardiers to take out that surviving Cinerator on the left flank. That positioning might not have been the right call in all games, but in a battle of brick vs brick, it might have been worth thinking about.
despite having two units of Man-O-Wars there. 3 - Your jacks. The Kodiak doesn't seem to have done much because it was trapped at the back. You mention it screening Sorscha, but against what? Your opponent didn't have shooting. My usual experience is also that it would have been better to have the Kodiak in Beast09's position (fairly far out on the right flank for the zone) and Beast09 more centrally. The Kodiak's a useful piece in scenario play with Vent Steam and throws, but it's also faster if you need to redeploy it. Meanwhile a more central Beast would give you a counter-charge threat who can also Thresher into medium-based Exemplar very effectively (Shield Wall + Defender's Ward Cinerators will survive, but they'll be hurting). In some games it might also mean you get more mileage out of Beast's Shield Guard, but that wouldn't apply here.
Yes, I should probably have switched places between the Kodiak and Beast. I had to take a gamble as I lined up first. But I should perhaps stick to what I normally thinking, which is Beast has a Shield Wall, let's keep it near Sorscha I completely agree that it would be better in the middle. +1. But also gets at GitGud 2.0 - so much of a key to this game at the higher levels is knowing what THEIR guys do.....to execute this stuff it is critical to understand the recursion engine they have and the lack of shooting in his list. Just an observation about both the write up and then this post (which was done in the best of intentions). Moral of the story - study not just khador stuff but other stuff as well. #knowyourenemy I so much agree. It is actually the main reason I do these reports. I rarely have the time to do a very thorough analysis when the game begins. But after I have the time to think about it, and hopefully be better prepared the next time. |
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igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Nov 10, 2019 16:28:26 GMT
Despite having a fondness for Winter Guards I sometimes manage to bring out Man-O-Wars. This time Baldur and his ever present Tharn is at the opposite of the table. I have really bad experiences trying Winter Guard Kommand against such a force, so Sorcha is send forth. It is a bloody mess, where Baldur unfortunately is allowed to use his signature forest walk magic. You can read all about it here: greylordarchives.blogspot.com/2019/11/kommandant-sorscha-kratikoff-sorscha3.html. Until next time. For the Motherland! |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Nov 11, 2019 4:20:56 GMT
Good read!
Why were the bombadiers so clumped up if you knew LotF was incoming? Spread them out to max command with the officer a decent distance back. LotF should only be able to get 2, maybe 3 then.
However I agree, LotF is completely unreasonable right now. The fact a free solo took out almost a whole 21pt unit in one activation before dying and I still thought that wasn't a totally awful trade for you was kinda sad.
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by borderprince on Nov 11, 2019 6:55:41 GMT
Thanks for the report. If you think your performance against a problem list is improving, then that's a win.
I'd agree about spacing more. There is no need for any unit to be base to base unless they have a special ability that triggers from being so close together.
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igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Nov 11, 2019 18:38:41 GMT
Good read! Why were the bombadiers so clumped up if you knew LotF was incoming? Spread them out to max command with the officer a decent distance back. LotF should only be able to get 2, maybe 3 then. However I agree, LotF is completely unreasonable right now. The fact a free solo took out almost a whole 21pt unit in one activation before dying and I still thought that wasn't a totally awful trade for you was kinda sad. Cheers, Dave Thanks for the report. If you think your performance against a problem list is improving, then that's a win.
I'd agree about spacing more. There is no need for any unit to be base to base unless they have a special ability that triggers from being so close together.
Thanks to both of you. Yes, I know. I should not clump them up. I have no good excuse, other than it looks pretty and orderly. I'll try to disregard my wish for order |
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