|
Post by danfromchicago on Aug 4, 2019 18:22:01 GMT
I am a little surprised there hasn't been much talk about the new ruleset on Constance and what we can do with it. I am a big fan. I have been running two units of PKs base. In Heavy Metal I have a third unit of Sword Knights, while with Flames in the Darkness I've been proxying Vigilants.
I think Fortune was an excellent addition to her kit, and while I mourn the loss of boosted ranged attacks on warriors, I recognize it's likely for the best. Until more stuff is out this is likely what I'll be running
Cygnar
[Theme] Flame in the Darkness
[Blaize 1] Constance Blaize, Knight of the Prophet [+29]
- Gallant [17]
- Sentinel [8]
- Toro [13]
- Toro [13]
Harlan Versh, Illuminated One [0(4)]
Ragman [0(4)]
Lieutenant Allison Jakes [0(4)]
- Centurion [17]
Precursor Knights (max) [14]
- Precursor Knight Officer & Standard [4]
Precursor Knights (max) [14]
- Precursor Knight Officer & Standard [4]
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 4, 2019 18:41:45 GMT
I don't think that she is competitive even now. Although she is better than the 2016 version, but I had rather take her MKII version if I could - it makes me to make a Mercenary list, though, for she was never usable on Cygnar but at least playable on mercs.
Still she don't protects her soldiers other than the feat, but Stryker1 does it much better - Stryker1 doesn't need his troops to be dead in the first place to protect them, and he also have the upkeep spells to protect them. Blessing of Morrow is good on the paper but you know Precursors lacks punching power without Morrow's Name so even after they are in melee boosting the damage roll is less useful.
Divine Inspiration for once per a game seems good but only affects Morrowan models dramatically reduce the value of it. And, why melee damage, where deliver them is the first problem to consider melee units in Cygnar? If I want to go melee heavy by the units and even if I set aside Storm Lances, I had rather take Stryker1, Stryker2, or Maddox instead. Stryker2 and Maddox also gives the punching power as well, while keep them alive.
Well, she may wait more Morrowan units to come, but I had rather take the other casters even after welcome them.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 4, 2019 20:11:04 GMT
So what's her gameplan now? She has a speed buff for her whole army, multiple ways of buffing accuracy, and on feat turn she can buff infantry survivability (ish) and damage? So does she just want to grind things out in a slow battle of attrition with an infantry-heavy list?
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 4, 2019 20:44:07 GMT
So what's her gameplan now? She has a speed buff for her whole army, multiple ways of buffing accuracy, and on feat turn she can buff infantry survivability (ish) and damage? So does she just want to grind things out in a slow battle of attrition with an infantry-heavy list? That is her plan all the times since her debut. It was not changed. And it only works when the opponent also brings their own melee infantry heavy list. Perhaps, on the dogfight between melee units, she may have a place. But... you know, Cygnar is not the faction to do that, and we can't pick the opponent's list - the opponent does.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Aug 4, 2019 22:19:23 GMT
I don't know. With the nerf to ranged attacks on her I'd rather play the other Cygnar caster in flames rather than her. The ranged attack boosting was one thing she could do with vigilants/resolutes that no one else could. Now she's just 'cool' but not that different. I guess if you want to play infantry flood spam like she did in MKII it would work.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 5, 2019 0:35:23 GMT
Only if she don't have Morrowan tag restriction at least she can get along with those pirates and Forge Guards on mercs as she does in MKII.... Although she is always the worst, but the best version among them is her initial run on Warmachine: Wrath. How ironically, for we blame her for years as the worst Cygnar and Mercenary warcaster through MKII days.
Else, I don't think that it was good, but if she keeps allowing spend her focus for the ranged attack part then she may have some synergy with newly released Morrowan stuffs. That's a weird interaction but at least she helps them. But since it was cut off now, she lost even her faint and silly advantage to stand.
I am always think of her and make a conclusion; why she is not a Protectorate Warcaster or a Skorne Warlock? At least, she have some units suit for her tactics at there. But she don't have a place on Cygnar and Mercenary. Seems like she is a stillborn model.
|
|
|
Post by danfromchicago on Aug 5, 2019 1:01:14 GMT
Okay, so, once all the pieces are out you will have a spell warded caster with multiple shield guards who gets stronger as you kill the army. And you can make your opponent kill your army.
I do believe you will need the battle priests to make the entire module work, but between crusaders call and vengeance, that's a +5 threat range increase. With the potential for clearing attacks.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 5, 2019 6:54:37 GMT
Triggering Vengeance means you are already give your opponent a turn to shoot, so it is only meaningful on retaliation, rather than sweep the enemy before fire. It is better than nothing. But the other casters are able to do that, not only Blaize. +2 to movement on charge also beats enemy melee chargers but not ranged troops.
Also, they don't need Blessings of Morrow on the turn they charges, and they need it on the following turn because you can't boost the damage roll twice. Also the other effect of the feat means you need to pop the feat when you are about to charge. But, what you need to pop the feat is as soon as you are expected to suffer the enemy ranged attack. In this case I just recommend Feat: Invincibility, or Blur, spare Arcane shield(for you need to put junior's one to your jack), and any other defensive spells from your caster.
And the other casters are not only better than her for melee support, but also do it with new morrowan stuffs as well, while Blaize only needs for morrowan stuff or bust.
Anyway she will be playable if your opponent brings something suit for her. But in the reality, the opponent choose it. And we can choose the better caster as well.
|
|
snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
|
Post by snoozer on Aug 5, 2019 7:16:22 GMT
Vengeance means your opponent won't shoot at them Also she has no limit of souls it seems, so when a unit is wiped she could go in and flash blade forever! I think this caster will see her sudden moment of glory when all flame in Darkness models are released.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 5, 2019 7:40:02 GMT
I feel like she's less limited to only working with Morrowan models now than she used to be? Crusader's Call, Fortune, Soul Taker, and the ARM buff part of her feat do not specify Morrowan, it's only Blessing of Morrow and Divine Inspiration that are limited to Morrowans. I don't remember exactly what her rules were before, but I feel like she had less buffs for non Morrowan models before?
It's a shame her speed buff is only on the charge, if she had some way of getting Shield-Walled units up the table quicker that would have been nice. I feel like her toolset will be nice with the multiwound Morrowan medium-bases?
What's the cheapest living faction infantry you can force the enemy to kill first to give her souls on feat turn? Mechanics? What's the best way to use the spare focus she's going to be getting from souls?
|
|
|
Post by anoddman on Aug 5, 2019 14:51:03 GMT
Y'all are bonkers if you think Constance isn't good. Dan knows where it's at.
Mostly leaning towards giving her a try in Storm Division. My lists fluctuate between how many Battle Priests I'm willing to attach on any given day.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 5, 2019 16:47:46 GMT
The problem is, the other casters are much better than her even for supporting melee unit. She can't protect her troops in the first place, and what she only can is beat the enemy melee unit forces.
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on Aug 5, 2019 18:52:33 GMT
The problem is, the other casters are much better than her even for supporting melee unit. She can't protect her troops in the first place, and what she only can is beat the enemy melee unit forces. You're not wrong about not protecting her troops directly, but that just means:
(1) Play her in a theme where the theme benefit discourages the enemy chipping away at units (i.e. Flame in the Darkness). Vengeance + gaining souls would certainly discourage me from taking potshots against a full Precursor unit. I would be significantly concerned about having Vengeance + Crusader's Call Precursors getting into my forces from quite some distance away and then Blaize helping them out with spells and Blessing of Morrow (that is an amazing passive ability - it's a Morrowan restricted version of one of Vlad2's really good spells, and he's one of the strongest casters in Khador).If I thought I could take the unit out, fine, but if not, there's an issue for using my shooting.
This is further complicated by there probably being several Shield Guards in the list which can cause Vengeance to trigger even when I don't target the unit. I haven't played it yet, but I'm really not sure how I would want to handle a Blaize list with a couple of units of Precursors. I might actually be tempted to run a melee list instead, provided my melee models outthreat Precurors without Vengeance. But then I'm playing a match up which plays to Blaize's strengths.
So not direct protection from shooting, but certainly a strong disincentive to just blaze away.
(2) Don't play her into heavy gunlines.
She's hardly the only caster who is much stronger in one theme than others, nor the only caster who isn't great into gunlines. But her kit now looks rather good in that context.
|
|
|
Post by kjata on Aug 6, 2019 7:58:01 GMT
I'm not sure how "only good into melee armies" is a problem when tharn, immortals, doom reavers, exemplars, grymkin in general, and cryx are running around. Sure basically everyone is taking a handful of guns but pure gunlines aren't exactly the most common thing you'll see these days.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 6, 2019 8:38:49 GMT
The problem is, Cygnar surely fall behind over them in unit to unit phalanx. Even if we can beat someone, ultimately we will be overwhelmed if we only brings melee forces. Her tactics needs our melee tropps to be self-sufficient, and able to survive after their charge. Precursors may do the former, but I doubt they will do something on the following turn after they charges(Precursors are still lacking by the way). Well, perhaps the feat kick in here? But you need to know that Blessings of Morrow needs living(I mean, that is on the battlefield) Morrowan melee unit that is already in melee with the enemy hard targets - if you are able to charge then you may charge anyways instead. Battle Priests surely benefit from the boosted second damage roll, but are you really think it is good to rely on the weapon attachment without damage box? To spend a warcarster slot, that is only one for the basic army size? And while Gallant benefits greatly from Blessings of Morrow, but it requires too much focus to spend just for it, and only benefit for Gallant is a solo level of benefit, not warcaster.
Honestly, even if her Morrowan tag restriction is removed, I doubt she have a place in Cygnar, the faction with expensive and fragile melee units. Well, it is possible to run her in Mercenary though, for Press Gangers and Forge Guards will welcome her back.
Also I didn't even mentioned her anathema since her release in MKII - Hexeris1. Well, worst matchup happens sometimes even for our best bet, so it is not that critical problem, though.
|
|