lugin
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by lugin on Jul 31, 2019 0:13:48 GMT
I don't know if this is the right place to post this kind of thing. If it's not, let me know and I can move it elsewhere. After recently moving, I dusted off an old box filled with models. I played Menoth/circle in the early days of MKii, and can see a number of changes with MKiii. I purchased the latest battle box and spent the last week in the forums and now I'm looking to put a list together. Here is the list of models I have, followed by my list ideas:
Warcasters: High Reclaimer Malekus Kreoss1 Kreoss2 Kreoss3 Severus1 Feora2 Harbinger of Menoth Amon ad-raza Reznik Testament
Warjacks: Avatar of Menoth Vanquisher x2 Vanq/temp/crus jack kit Castogator Crusader x4 Fire of salvation Blessing of vengeance Reconer Repenter x6 (don't ask why i have 6...) Revenger x4 Redeemer devout
Units: Examplar Bastions x5 Exemplar Cinerators x5 Exemplar knights x12 Exemplar errants x10 + UA Choir of menoth x6 Flameguard cleansers x12 + UA Deliverers x6 Holy Zealots x6 + UA Sunburster crew
Solo: Wrack x3 Bastion seneschal Exemplar seneschal Knight seneschal Hierophant Paladin dartain vilmon Initiate tristan durant Paladin of the wall x3 Covenant of menoth Vassal of menoth x2
I want to start small with a 25-35 pt army. I am willing to pick up a model or two if it means getting the BEST possible list (for instance, with all my Exemplars I've heard good things about Vindictus...)
My Ideas: With the number of Exemplars I have, the best place to start would probably be an Exemplar Interdiction theme force. I played Kreoss2 back in the day, but from what i hear, infantry spam is not as good as it used to be (also the themes are not as generous as they were in MKii). maybe get a different warcaster (Cyrenia or Vindictus)? or one of the new solos/Unit attachments? Another list would be a Creators Might theme force with Amon. ive got lots of crusaders! should i pick up a dervisher or two to get the best out of his spell list? How effective is continuous fire damage? I had a thought with Malekus, his battle group, and all the flameguard cleansers i have (but i dont know what theme I'd use, or if it even a viable list). Id like to one day pick up an Eye of Truth as it is a beautiful model.
What other synergies can I utilize with the models I currently have? If I am missing anything, let me know. and if I would benefit from purchasing one or two small models, share your list ideas to help me get back into the game
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Post by mydnight on Jul 31, 2019 0:49:54 GMT
My Ideas:With the number of Exemplars I have, the best place to start would probably be an Exemplar Interdiction theme force. I played Kreoss2 back in the day, but from what i hear, infantry spam is not as good as it used to be (also the themes are not as generous as they were in MKii). maybe get a different warcaster (Cyrenia or Vindictus)? or one of the new solos/Unit attachments? Weapon master spam with EI is actually good, just not with Kreoss2. IMO Kreoss2 works better in Faithful Masses, where the infantry can actually survive, and where the heavy warjacks he wants to bring get a good bonus. The best casters for EI (IMO of course) are Vindictus, Thyra, Cyrenia, Harbinger. Testament can also work in EI but I find him boring. High Reclaimer only if you're bringing the Judicator. Harbinger is just better in FM where she can protect herself better, but she's still great in EI. Another list would be a Creators Might theme force with Amon. ive got lots of crusaders! should i pick up a dervisher or two to get the best out of his spell list? How effective is continuous fire damage? I had a thought with Malekus, his battle group, and all the flameguard cleansers i have (but i dont know what theme I'd use, or if it even a viable list). Id like to one day pick up an Eye of Truth as it is a beautiful model.Definitely majority of Amon's list should be dervishes. Amon with Eye of Truth would also be hillarious with Enliven. Also you'll want to look at Severius0 (Jr warcaster). I suspect harbinger prefers the crusader spam in FM. What other synergies can I utilize with the models I currently have? If I am missing anything, let me know. and if I would benefit from purchasing one or two small models, share your list ideas to help me get back into the gameIf you get a couple of Champions of the Wall and Initiates of the Wall you can start a Faithful Masses list, which is probably our most 'well rounded' theme.
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lugin
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by lugin on Jul 31, 2019 1:24:18 GMT
It sounds like the exemplar list might be my cheepest option right now. All I would need to do is get a new warcaster (either vindictus or Cyrenia). If I wanted to go with Amon, it sounds like I need a few more cheep warjacks.
Any other solos or UA's to add? Like a knights exemplar officer?
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Post by mydnight on Jul 31, 2019 2:50:38 GMT
It sounds like the exemplar list might be my cheepest option right now. All I would need to do is get a new warcaster (either vindictus or Cyrenia). If I wanted to go with Amon, it sounds like I need a few more cheep warjacks. Any other solos or UA's to add? Like a knights exemplar officer? If you plan to play Cinerators then the UA is a must. KE UA is very good but not as auto-include as the Cinerator one. Gravus is also really good for the +2 movement bonus and no knockdown/stationary. And the Exemplar Warder is good for casters that like to play it forward. Depending on your caster you may also need Rhupert. Playing Harbinger in Exemplar Interdiction will give you a good feel of the theme and how you may want to proceed with it. (It will also let you play those crusaders as she can handle bringing 3 crusaders and nothing else -- just make sure you bring a warder along )
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 31, 2019 3:38:20 GMT
Really important stuff you should listen to. I came here to say what he said. Also, Vindictus runs the Exemplar swarm better than Kreoss2.
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lugin
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by lugin on Jul 31, 2019 4:11:30 GMT
I think what "scared" me away from vindictus the first time I saw him is his ability call to sacrifice (zealots). Originally thinking that to maximize him, I'd need to take him in a "zealot friendly" list/tier. Is this not the case with warcasters/warjacks?
For instance earlier you mentioned it would be fun having Eye of Truth in an Amon list. But isn't the eye of Truth Malekus's jack?
Lastly, how is Malekus? He looks well rounded (no pun) on paper. But does he fall short in larger point lists?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 31, 2019 4:47:18 GMT
Vindictus has 2 abilities related to Zealots and they are not as defining as his spells and feat. Exemplars love True Path.
Make sure you download War Room 2 on your phone and buy the Protectorate faction deck.
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Post by mydnight on Jul 31, 2019 5:12:42 GMT
I think what "scared" me away from vindictus the first time I saw him is his ability call to sacrifice (zealots). Originally thinking that to maximize him, I'd need to take him in a "zealot friendly" list/tier. Is this not the case with warcasters/warjacks? For instance earlier you mentioned it would be fun having Eye of Truth in an Amon list. But isn't the eye of Truth Malekus's jack? Lastly, how is Malekus? He looks well rounded (no pun) on paper. But does he fall short in larger point lists? Amon can get access to the Eye of Truth, but he must play in the Guardians theme. If you want a quick way to look at stats/themes etc check out LOS warmachine university: warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Main_PageAlso PP just released an update of themes on their site where all the free rules and cards are. privateerpress.com/organized-play/game-rules-errata
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lugin
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by lugin on Jul 31, 2019 6:18:40 GMT
Amon can get access to the Eye of Truth, but he must play in the Guardians theme. I know he can use the Eye, but i keep thinking to myself, "here is a jack with access to only half its abilities because he is not bonded to the right caster". same principal with Vindictus. if you dont field zealots, you dont get the sacrifices and you also dont get the free models when he kills something with his weapons (half a warcaster...) But this is all whats written on paper. it could play very differently on the table. Am i right in thinking this, or is it not that big a deal in practice when played on the table? I could be over thinking this and its not that bad.
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Post by paradox on Jul 31, 2019 12:22:15 GMT
Amon can get access to the Eye of Truth, but he must play in the Guardians theme. I know he can use the Eye, but i keep thinking to myself, "here is a jack with access to only half its abilities because he is not bonded to the right caster". same principal with Vindictus. if you dont field zealots, you dont get the sacrifices and you also dont get the free models when he kills something with his weapons (half a warcaster...) But this is all whats written on paper. it could play very differently on the table. Am i right in thinking this, or is it not that big a deal in practice when played on the table? I could be over thinking this and its not that bad. Vindictus has poor melee stats for a caster, and should never be in melee, so youre missing nothing there. But other folks are right - hes great in Exemplar Interdiction. The best exemplar caster, IMO. Played right, you never need his sacrifice ability either. Amon has about zero use for Eye’s arc node bond. So again, youre not really missing anything. Instead of worrying about what you miss out on, its far more useful to ask “what role does this play in my list?” And “does it fill that role adequately?”
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lugin
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by lugin on Jul 31, 2019 16:14:49 GMT
That is a really interesting way of thinking about it. thanks What should be my first purchase? Vindictus or the cinerator UA? Or the knights UA?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 31, 2019 16:19:18 GMT
That is a really interesting way of thinking about it. thanks What should be my first purchase? Vindictus or the cinerator UA? Or the knights UA? Knights UA is nice. Cinerators UA goes in every list that it can fit in. If you're interested in running a lot of Exemplars, Vindictus is definitely worth checking out. He'll give you a completely different experience than the other warcasters. Edit: To clarify, the Knights UA provides some damage, infantry-clearing, and reducing the effective losses of using a few models here and there. It doesn't actually help you deliver the Knights Exemplar and that is going to be a returning pain point. The Cinerators UA makes them way tougher, faster once per game, and provides a solution for Tough. This solves major problems for them and the faction's infantry as a whole.
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Post by josephkerr on Jul 31, 2019 16:43:24 GMT
Some casters, its absolutely worthwhile to use the whole card and try to maximize things, but honestly how often is Vindictus in melee and ur still winning the game? Does a few zealots make a difference in those games? PP has freely admitted that they give essentially “free” rules that aren't really factored into balancing point cost because its fun and fluffy. Its a trap to try and maximize a rule u may never use in a normal game.
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lugin
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by lugin on Jul 31, 2019 17:22:39 GMT
Now I just need to pick the right Jack's that will work well with vindictus. Maybe I can use the 6 repenters ;P
Does anyone have a link to basic information on the Jack's? Like what role they serve in a list
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 31, 2019 18:00:36 GMT
You might want to check out the Warmachine University website. We try to give a comprehensive rundown of every model as well as any combos and synergies, drawback and downsides.
Edit: That being said, Protectorate is somewhat of a blindside of mine, so i cant speak for the quality of the the respective articles. Vindictus's page especially doesn't seem to have seen any edits in years. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.
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