|
Post by auraco on Jul 22, 2019 14:26:12 GMT
Why not just a Rager on S0? I'd say because the way the Vlad1 list deals with shooting is shooting harder than the shooting it's receiving, the rager isn't much help here, it's 10 points for a low offensive output model in a list that wants to be as offensive as possible. And yeah the rager's gun doesn't really count here...
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 22, 2019 15:02:15 GMT
Why not just a Rager on S0? I think the issue is that you are paying 10 points for a shield guard jack in a theme where shield guards are less necessary because of Sac Pawn for the caster and Joe. It feels like you are paying 10 points for a body guard for Sorscha0 alone.
That said, I'm considering it for the Vlad1 WGK list I'm mulling when the new version of the theme is official. Mainly because I have 10 points left to get a jack for Sorscha0 and the options then are pretty limited. I hope that SnP means that it will get some work done with the gun in the mid-game and/or use ARM20 to toe a zone.
auraco Simple answer for me has often been "points". I've had trouble scrapping the points for a Destroyer, especially when also taking a Gun Carriage (or two).
Besides that, I haven't found the melee jack issue to be a major problem. Against gunlines, the usual Vlad1 feat turn has been: allocate 1 to 2 of the BG jacks; Feat; Sorcha0 Boundless Charges those two jacks; two jacks rocket forward and do good work (fairly reliably taking out two BEs if you use Marauders for example). The remaining jack in Vlad's BG doesn't get much from the feat, but that's OK - the feat is used to get a good piece trading advantage from a considerable distance. Sorscha0's jack is kept back for the later game, when a 10" threat range is usually fine.
Not disagreeing but pointing out - in the new SR it is hard for Sorscha's jack to be held back and not do work - especially in the scenario's with jack scoring zone on the side. A destroyer can be sent over to there to sit and shoot and score - while she is able to be central to provide BC support.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Jul 22, 2019 15:19:46 GMT
So far I've found the destroyer to be a very good at sitting in a zone to score while still doing work in scenarios with squares zones, stuff like spread the net and other scenario with square zone on your side of the board.
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Jul 22, 2019 16:50:09 GMT
Vlad_1 was one of my early Themepocalypse Go-To's, very strong with Rockets. Arcane Assist (Tim Banky, et al) did a series of Battle Reports on YouTube exploring Vlad_1's effectiveness, should probably check those out. Frankly only reason I stopped playing Vlad_1 in WGK is because ArmCorp was so much cooler looking I'll probably just wait for the switch and dynamic update to do some serious theorymachine with WGK (should be a couple of weeks at the most).
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 22, 2019 16:56:21 GMT
And yeah the rager's gun doesn't really count here... Why not? It's a POW 15 that can boost to hit. Sure, upgrade to a Destroyer if you have the points, but if it's a choice between a Rager and a Marauder then the Rager can contribute offensively from farther away and has utility as a Shield Guard to help keep S0 alive at least, and if you've paid the points to bring her in your list for Boundless Charge (which apparently is key for achieving the threat range necessary to deal with the kiting battle engines?) then you probably want her alive. I dunno, I just feel like people are a little too quick to dismiss our cheaper jacks sometimes without really thinking about it simply because under "normal" conditions they are worse value than our mid-priced jacks. Anyway. Nevermind.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 22, 2019 18:13:01 GMT
Vlad_1 was one of my early Themepocalypse Go-To's, very strong with Rockets. Arcane Assist (Tim Banky, et al) did a series of Battle Reports on YouTube exploring Vlad_1's effectiveness, should probably check those out. Frankly only reason I stopped playing Vlad_1 in WGK is because ArmCorp was so much cooler looking I'll probably just wait for the switch and dynamic update to do some serious theorymachine with WGK (should be a couple of weeks at the most). could you post a link to said reports?
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Jul 22, 2019 18:25:32 GMT
|
|
|
Post by zerosequence on Jul 22, 2019 21:11:52 GMT
Still toying with lists but I’m really liking either Vlad2 or B3 in WGK with the other list Zerkova1 Wolves. The Zerkova list really puts pressure and list chicken in the table. The WGK list tries to counter shoot and bring solid threat range. Accurate shots can take out the Trancers early which IMO are the biggest hurdle because of how much control they provide and then start plinking away at the jacks and tanks. Use threat range and target saturation to get your Marauders into melee.
My only question is what is the optimal jack setup?
5 Marauders = 55pts 2 Marauder/2 Destroyer = 50pts.
Option 1 pushes Armour and melee threat. Option 2 pushes a decent ranged game but may just be too cute.
|
|
nackers
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
|
Post by nackers on Jul 23, 2019 7:03:12 GMT
Sand do you have many AC models this my initial try but you swap out the marauder for destroyers or something else War Room Army
Khador - New Army
Theme: Armored Corps 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion - WJ: +27 - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
Man-O-War Assault Chariot - PC: 14
Man-O-War Strike Tanker - PC: 5 Man-O-War Strike Tanker - PC: 5 Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4
Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 4 Grunts: 14 - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - PC: 0 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4 Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard - Arconovich & Standard Bearer: 7
THEME: Armored Corps ---
GENERATED : 07/23/2019 17:00:45 BUILD ID : 2088.19-07-02
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 23, 2019 13:23:10 GMT
Thanks!!!
I own basally everything. We have found that ac ends up being too slow and too few models to make it. The pie plates just need t be so far up and vlad2 on so little focus it is bleak for him. Plus I thk across my meta he is better in wolves.
I am interested in trying z1 in wolves though....she has some interesting tools in this match up. Everyone needs an ice cream cone.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Jul 23, 2019 13:40:33 GMT
Thanks!!! I own basally everything. We have found that ac ends up being too slow and too few models to make it. The pie plates just need t be so far up and vlad2 on so little focus it is bleak for him. Plus I thk across my meta he is better in wolves. I am interested in trying z1 in wolves though....she has some interesting tools in this match up. Everyone needs an ice cream cone. Vlad2 really doesn't deal very well with gunlines, and I think he covers a lot more of the board in Wolves of winter than in armored corps. My experiences with Zerkova1 in wolves of winter is that the army plays too wide for her limited control tools, she can't really protect enough models while still covering enough of the board. I'm curious to try her in armored corps where there army is way more clumped up than in wolves, but I suspect that the theme that will make her really shine is going to be Flame in the dark, might try her in armored corps in the meantime but I'll stay away from her in wolves for now.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 23, 2019 20:15:31 GMT
Thanks!!! I own basally everything. We have found that ac ends up being too slow and too few models to make it. The pie plates just need t be so far up and vlad2 on so little focus it is bleak for him. Plus I thk across my meta he is better in wolves. I am interested in trying z1 in wolves though....she has some interesting tools in this match up. Everyone needs an ice cream cone. Vlad2 really doesn't deal very well with gunlines, and I think he covers a lot more of the board in Wolves of winter than in armored corps. My experiences with Zerkova1 in wolves of winter is that the army plays too wide for her limited control tools, she can't really protect enough models while still covering enough of the board. I'm curious to try her in armored corps where there army is way more clumped up than in wolves, but I suspect that the theme that will make her really shine is going to be Flame in the dark, might try her in armored corps in the meantime but I'll stay away from her in wolves for now. Could you expand on your thinking in dark? do you think the troops work well enough? Clearly getting an arc node for her is uber
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Jul 24, 2019 2:30:12 GMT
Couple of things, first the theme bonus of vengeance on all units is massive. Precursor knights are ok, but with vengeance they become pretty good. Zerkova1's main problem is lack of to hit and damage buff and lack of threat range extender, this theme has a lot of build in blessed, with the precursor and vigilants and a lot of caster independant damage buff, like access to ragman and Gabriel Throne's stir the blood. It also doesn't play as wide as say wolves, with precursor holding the center and different flavors of Archons anchoring the flanks, so it's easier to cover with her feat and cloudwall. For the threat range issues, vengeance is great and she has access to jacks that have a native decent threat range, like Galant and Toros, because playing melee jacks with her and their 8'' threat range is never fun, having 10'' threat range jacks is great for her. Also the arc node, notice how her artefact that gives +5 range is not simply range amplifier, so it works even when she channels a spell, this means she can channel a Hex blast 15'' away from the arc node. The Tharmarchon also kinda substitute for the lack of command attachement in the theme with the rerolls he gives her, on attacks like her gun attack and her spray attacks it can represent a lot of gaind value.
So yeah, Wolves is Vlad2's territory, but Zerkova1 doesn't care, she's going to prefer Flame anyway.
There is absolutely nothing to do with Zerkova2 in Flames tho, it really doesn't have enough models that have magic abilities to really get value out of it. Fun fact tho, Zerkova2 gains vengeance from the theme if it doesn't change from the CID, because it stated units gain vengeance, didn't specify non caster unit...
|
|
|
Post by steeltitan on Jul 24, 2019 10:58:24 GMT
I have a quick question for all the people who've used Sorscha0, especially against gunlines, this includes steeltitan and sand20go. Are you guys really comfortable to put a melee jack on Sorscha0? I ran a Rager with S0 in my OW2 Jaws list which was great. It helps keep S0 alive and demotivated people from taking shots on OW. I now run Beast09 in my B3 Jaws list which i also really like. It combines Shield Guard and some real CC threat. I usually keep it further back and keep it as a late game piece while it can still counter-punch once my 1st or 2nd waves are struck or alpha-ed. Its higher MAT and 3d6 vs warrior models also means i have another solution to annoying CG halbediers and maybe the odd trancers. Still, running Beast was a temporary plug because i wanted to keep running a Rager and add Alexia2 for some solo scoring and more flexible contesting. I just finished her but havent had the chance yet to test. I used to run Destroyers on my Forgeseers and i just dont like them. I dont want a 14 point jack to just sit back and take one inaccurate (note: not the rule) shot per turn. Also, once it does need to contribute in CC, my opponent knows its damage output is low with his one CC weapon. I much rather take a Devastator than a Destroyer. The Marauder on S0 in the above list suggestion was based on trying to maximize the amount of jacks...and marauders are just good against CG which is one of Sand's biggest problems (like for me). I probably go for that or a Rager because it wouldnt be hard for CG to pick off Sorscha. I like the idea of Beast09 but points are tight in WGK list. Maybe I should try to fit that in...
|
|