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Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 18, 2019 8:13:10 GMT
Play Strakhov1 and AKs are 7/7 with no input from anyone. Why would you play Strakhov1 in WGK with AKs? I mean, Veteran Leader is OK, but that's just it, and he doesn't really want cheap shooting units. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 18, 2019 8:14:20 GMT
On the theme itself: meh unfortunately. However I will need to see if there's anything to be done with having character Mercs at last. Loosing advance move was expected, but not getting anything else wasn't. Have we seen any other theme with just one benefit yet or is WG the only one? The weapon attachments is annoying too. Maybe all the rockets was too much, but making flamethrowers an option would have been a nice way to create incentive to include AKs more.
Couple questions though:
Is the adjunct allowed? Looks like a no to me.
Is sac pawn onto any infantry or just WG still?
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 18, 2019 8:15:23 GMT
Play Strakhov1 and AKs are 7/7 with no input from anyone. Why would you play Strakhov1 in WGK with AKs? I mean, Veteran Leader is OK, but that's just it, and he doesn't really want cheap shooting units. All I'm saying is the statement WG have more accuracy buffs than AKs isn't correct. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 8:21:52 GMT
Can we just all agree that we will all assume that every theme gets worse or, at best, stay the same. It will prevent many tears and we know it will be true   Yay to not having to buy AKs! Jaws got a massive shot in the arm; it has better free options, better benefits, and is far more flexible in listbuilding. Significant improvement. As far as we know AC and WoW aren't changing (although AC will gain a character jack), and WGK has lost a very useful benefit to gain access to character mercs. It's not a buff, but it's not the end of the world. Legion of Steel is losing the Advance Move benefit. Judging by WGK it may well also lose the restriction on taking character merc units. To me, that's an improvement. If they replace the Advance Move benefit with anything even slightly useful we've come out ahead there. (I'm still holding out a faint doomed hope that they will add AKs to that theme) |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 8:26:54 GMT
On the theme itself: meh unfortunately. However I will need to see if there's anything to be done with having character Mercs at last. Loosing advance move was expected, but not getting anything else wasn't. Have we seen any other theme with just one benefit yet or is WG the only one? The weapon attachments is annoying too. Maybe all the rockets was too much, but making flamethrowers an option would have been a nice way to create incentive to include AKs more. Couple questions though: Is the adjunct allowed? Looks like a no to me. Is sac pawn onto any infantry or just WG still? Cheers, Dave The Adjunct is listed in the allowed models. Sac Pawn [Winter Guard trooper model] |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 8:31:26 GMT
Why would you play Strakhov1 in WGK with AKs? I mean, Veteran Leader is OK, but that's just it, and he doesn't really want cheap shooting units. All I'm saying is the statement WG have more accuracy buffs than AKs isn't correct. Cheers, Dave WGI and Rifles have an in-built accuracy and damage buff in CRA. The Rifles are also far more likely to be able to aim because of the extra range. The lack of CRA always seems odd to me; "we take the very best of the Winterguard, and then teach them not to work together!" |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 8:48:21 GMT
Jeez, I'm just spamming this thread today! Sorry!
Thinking about WGK lists; this is obviously a kick in the nadgers for running jacks in the theme, but broadly speaking the common way of running it, Stalingrad, is basically unchanged. And the more I think about it, the more I like the 2x Artillery Kaptain benefit. Two scoring options in a theme that's light on solos is not bad, especially when you consider that Artillerist is very useful in the theme.
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Post by kjata on Jul 18, 2019 9:06:36 GMT
On the theme itself: meh unfortunately. However I will need to see if there's anything to be done with having character Mercs at last. Loosing advance move was expected, but not getting anything else wasn't. Have we seen any other theme with just one benefit yet or is WG the only one? The weapon attachments is annoying too. Maybe all the rockets was too much, but making flamethrowers an option would have been a nice way to create incentive to include AKs more. Couple questions though: Is the adjunct allowed? Looks like a no to me. Is sac pawn onto any infantry or just WG still? Cheers, Dave Secret masters in circle also only has one benefit, and that one benefit also grants sac pawn. |
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 18, 2019 9:09:14 GMT
On the theme itself: meh unfortunately. However I will need to see if there's anything to be done with having character Mercs at last. Loosing advance move was expected, but not getting anything else wasn't. Have we seen any other theme with just one benefit yet or is WG the only one? The weapon attachments is annoying too. Maybe all the rockets was too much, but making flamethrowers an option would have been a nice way to create incentive to include AKs more. Couple questions though: Is the adjunct allowed? Looks like a no to me. Is sac pawn onto any infantry or just WG still? Cheers, Dave Secret masters in circle also only has one benefit, and that one benefit also grants sac pawn. Destruction Initiative in Convergence of Cyriss also only has one benefit: Shield Guard on Servitors. |
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Post by Valcaro on Jul 18, 2019 10:31:56 GMT
Sad to see the "free Behemoth"-Movement be ignored. I'd have very much appreciated being able to pick him in WGK... oh well
All in all it seems to be a mixed bag. You can now play beast/ruin with B3 WGK, but that's about it. I kinda feel the disappointment, that "can't have nice things" feeling, too. It's not that we can't get enough free points, it's just that it seems not fair, for the rocketeers to not be a requisition option.
At least we can pick merc character solos now, so ragman, Alexia2 and Orin are available, which opens up a few casters. Doesn't feel like much of a buff though, since it wasn't really nessesary in the first place for the restriction to be there imo.
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Post by auraco on Jul 18, 2019 10:50:36 GMT
Can we just all agree that we will all assume that every theme gets worse or, at best, stay the same. It will prevent many tears and we know it will be true Yay to not having to buy AKs! Jaws got a massive shot in the arm; it has better free options, better benefits, and is far more flexible in listbuilding. Significant improvement. As far as we know AC and WoW aren't changing (although AC will gain a character jack), and WGK has lost a very useful benefit to gain access to character mercs. It's not a buff, but it's not the end of the world. Legion of Steel is losing the Advance Move benefit. Judging by WGK it may well also lose the restriction on taking character merc units. To me, that's an improvement. If they replace the Advance Move benefit with anything even slightly useful we've come out ahead there. (I'm still holding out a faint doomed hope that they will add AKs to that theme) Haha, you made the classic blunder of expecting them to not nerf existing stuff for no apparent reason. I could clearly see them dropping the free upkeep turn one in wolves of winter like they did in secret masters, something that really affect Vlad2 since he has a lot of upkeep to set up turn one. They could also be changing the way the advance move work in armored corps, seeing what they've done with other theme, and it could possibly end up being a nerf or something that makes the advance move less flexible. I'm also expecting them to not give legion of steel anything to replace the loss of advance move. Not that it really matters, legion of steel already need something to help it not be bottom tier. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 18, 2019 10:54:49 GMT
So have been thinking through the theme a bit and now have a few thoughts (and a list I fancy trying).
1. I feel at least one of Alexia2, Hutchuck or the gun carriage will be required due to new scenarios. In general WGK looks like it might struggle with scoring far flags.
2. The free points options seem ok. Weapon attachments would be nice, but the artillerist does kind of make up for it by providing scoring solos.
3. Hitting power could be tricky. It's fairly reliant on jacks, certainly for melee. With them being slower now they will likely get there after the guns have a couple rounds, so that softening up will help.
4. Overall, theme feels fine, but I think a fair few casters just won't be interested.
Sorscha1 is at the top of my list to play. Interested to see how it pans out.
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by auraco on Jul 18, 2019 11:09:40 GMT
So have been thinking through the theme a bit and now have a few thoughts (and a list I fancy trying). 1. I feel at least one of Alexia2, Hutchuck or the gun carriage will be required due to new scenarios. In general WGK looks like it might struggle with scoring far flags. 2. The free points options seem ok. Weapon attachments would be nice, but the artillerist does kind of make up for it by providing scoring solos. 3. Hitting power could be tricky. It's fairly reliant on jacks, certainly for melee. With them being slower now they will likely get there after the guns have a couple rounds, so that softening up will help. 4. Overall, theme feels fine, but I think a fair few casters just won't be interested. Sorscha1 is at the top of my list to play. Interested to see how it pans out. Cheers, Dave The gun carriage has always been on of the best option in winterguard kommand, it's a good model that doesn't need any support to be good and just shines when he does get support. So it's pretty much a must take anyway for me. I like the free artillerist option, I was just expecting weapon attachement too and I don't tend to run rocketspam, so for 3 requisition option I would have gotten the artillery kapitan anyway. Losing access to Valachev in the theme won't help with the hitting power issues, ayanna's kiss was something that scaled very well with the rockets. I'm unsure which caster I would actually want to play in that theme anymore now that these changes make Butcher3 way less appealing for the theme. All is not bad for khador though, Flame in the dark and Warrior of the old faith, if they stay like in CID are going to be good it's just annoying to see stuff we could play become less interesting and needing to put a lot of money into the new stuff. |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 11:23:56 GMT
Jaws got a massive shot in the arm; it has better free options, better benefits, and is far more flexible in listbuilding. Significant improvement. As far as we know AC and WoW aren't changing (although AC will gain a character jack), and WGK has lost a very useful benefit to gain access to character mercs. It's not a buff, but it's not the end of the world. Legion of Steel is losing the Advance Move benefit. Judging by WGK it may well also lose the restriction on taking character merc units. To me, that's an improvement. If they replace the Advance Move benefit with anything even slightly useful we've come out ahead there. (I'm still holding out a faint doomed hope that they will add AKs to that theme) Haha, you made the classic blunder of expecting them to not nerf existing stuff for no apparent reason. I could clearly see them dropping the free upkeep turn one in wolves of winter like they did in secret masters, something that really affect Vlad2 since he has a lot of upkeep to set up turn one. They could also be changing the way the advance move work in armored corps, seeing what they've done with other theme, and it could possibly end up being a nerf or something that makes the advance move less flexible. I'm also expecting them to not give legion of steel anything to replace the loss of advance move. Not that it really matters, legion of steel already need something to help it not be bottom tier. Haha, you've certainly got me there! With the upkeeps on Wolves: I think Secret Masters lost that benefit because PP seem to be dropping the second benefit from themes that grant Shield Guard and Sacrificial Pawn. They clearly think ranged defense options are strong. I'd be more concerned about losing Apparition; it's a SPD boost on a theme that already has mass AD, so they might look at it as a problem. Oracles lost that benefit, but kept the upkeeps one. If my theory on the single-benefit themes is right, then Legion should get something. After all, Storm Division lost AM on a limited set of models and gained Unyielding on almost all of them. But you're correct, I'm making assumptions left, right and centre here |
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 18, 2019 11:58:20 GMT
If my theory on the single-benefit themes is right, then Legion should get something. After all, Storm Division lost AM on a limited set of models and gained Unyielding on almost all of them. What about Unyielding on all Iron Fangs? That would be amazing! But I'm afraid we can't have nice things. |
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