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Post by auraco on Jul 11, 2019 16:44:16 GMT
Interesting. Didn't think of vlad2 WoW into Skorne. How does he fair into the Exalted? I normally play Karchev into Skorne, but I know Reavers under OW2 worked into the old Rasheth list. Vlad2 Wolves works into Exalted, the full unit of outriders can do a lot of work with hand of fate and the usual weird spray targeting to get around the arcane vortex. Supreme guardian are not that sturdy, so even without brittle frost they are not that hard to kill. It's also very easy to get a scenario lead and leverage the game around that, they should win the attrition match because of vengeance and the recursion, but they will struggle to actually contest stuff on your side of the board and at the end of the day if you win on scenario it's not a big deal to lose the attrition. Unless they have the old version of winds of death with the reivers I'm pretty comfortable just dropping Vlad2 into all the rest of skorne. Their armies tend to be melee centric and this is exactly what Vlad2 wants to see on the table, most are not autowin match up, but they are very playable at worst. The place where Vlad2 wolves does terribly is against lot of guns, stuff like Baldwin with crucible guard infantry, most cygnar list (if anyone still plays cygnar, they've pretty much dissapeared in my are) some Ret list (1 trident is manageable, two is a bit much).
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 11, 2019 21:53:46 GMT
Would you play WoW into Rasheth winds with double turtles?
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Post by sand20go on Jul 11, 2019 22:23:05 GMT
Would you play WoW into Rasheth winds with double turtles? ONLY if you feel good about your windblast positioning. Spd8 turtles are tough to pin down in the pie plates. It is also a question about board - can you find a good place up the field to hide vlad? (aka an obstacle). _IF_ you can then you can make it work. Otherwise, I think you just get shot off the board.
But test it. That isn't a match up I have to play much (our skorne doesn't like the fat man). Also. dare I say it - Murder girls can murder fat man. Under Feat and gang pow 14. Even under his feat Pow 12 if you counter feat. USe your focus to boost to get 2 dice. Hope he camped at least 2. He probably did - but I have seen fat man get greedy and start trying to clip doomies with driffing BoC.
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Post by auraco on Jul 11, 2019 22:23:41 GMT
Disclaimer, I haven't actually done the match up yet. That being said, Against the old version of Rashet with venator reivers, no absolutely not, I think I'd just get shot down the board Against the more modern version with two derp turtle and a supreme guardian, yeah I'd take that on and I think it's a very doable match up.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 26, 2019 1:47:12 GMT
OK, folks. GenCon alert. If you missed my other thread, Oblivion themes are valid for the official Gen Con events. I’ve updated my list. I have a tournament this Saturday, which will be my last chance to practice before flying to Indianapolis. What do you think about this? 3 units, 3 solos, 9 rockets, guns for days, 5 jacks, including 2 Juggernauts and 3 Marauders. I’d like to upgrade the Marauder to a Destroyer, but probably not at the cost of a rocket. I feel like this has enough staying power to go large base hunting, enough long range guns to remove support and arc nodes (looking at you, Rasheth), and enough rockets do do some serious damage. Theme: Winter Guard Kommand 75/75 Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2) - Marauder - PC: 11 Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff - PC: 4/0 - Marauder - PC: 11 Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4/0 Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 auraco , sand20go , borderprince , hocestbellum , what do you think? While I like the notion posed by skathrex about including the GC, (a) I don’t know that it fits in my GenCon travel bag (probably yes), but more importantly I don’t know that I like giving up what I need to give up to fit it in. I’ll post an updated Wolves list once the theme drops in War Room or is spoiled... Man I hope we get 2 UAs for 1 requisition point. Assuming my Christmas wish comes true, I lean towards this. I fully acknowledge to sand20go that I might be suboptimizing this list by leaving the murder girls at home, and open to suggestions that don’t include dropping to 4 units of doomreaver. War Room Army Khador - Vlad 2 Winter - Gen Con Theme: Wolves of Winter 3 / 3 Free Cards 75/75 Army Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion - WJ: +27 - Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Koldun Lord - PC: 0 Koldun Lord - PC: 0 Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire - PC: 7 - Thrall Warriors until the cows come home Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 0 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 0 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Greylord Outriders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10
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Post by auraco on Jul 26, 2019 2:16:24 GMT
The Vlad2 list is fine, you’ll do ok without the murder girls As for the Vlad1 list I like it, too bad it lost the advance moves. While I do like the gun carriage a lot, I think it’s fine that you don’t have one in your list. It’s a good piece against melee build and your Vlad1 list is suppose to be an anti gunline list, you can skip the fun carriage here, leave murdering the melee list to Vlad2 Wolves, it does it incredibly well.
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Post by borderprince on Jul 26, 2019 7:06:37 GMT
Vlad1 list looks good. Should be fine, especially into gunlines.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 26, 2019 9:17:06 GMT
Looks good to me.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 27, 2019 4:03:42 GMT
Well, damn, I'm really surprised that Wolves doesn't get two UAs for one RP. Anyhow, our tournament tomorrow is using the old themes, not the new ones, so I'll be practicing with these lists. Were Reavers rocking the meta so hard that they didn't want to buff us with cheap UAs? Serious question...am I living in my own little Khador fantasyland that it would have been fine to do two UAs for one RP? In the grand list of Legion of Shelf getting, well, shelves this is hardly a constitutional crisis but still...
Hmmm...
Khador [Theme] Wolves of Winter
[Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Grolar [18] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire [7] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10]
Khador [Theme] Winter Guard Kommand
[Vladimir 1] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Prince [+28] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Marauder [11] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10] - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [4] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0(5)] Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0(5)] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 27, 2019 23:47:37 GMT
TOURNAMENT UPDATE!
I played today in a 12 man tournament. We played 3 rounds, and I split first place with JVM. I’m very happy with the result, and also with how the lists feel. Any deficiency in the lists is purely pilot error (and there were many errors...)
Summary:
Round 1, I play my Vlad 1 Winterguard list into Ashlynn in Lealeses Resistance. I think Wolves might be a better drop, but I want to practice Winterguard since I haven’t played it in a long time. I go 2nd, which is definitely to my opponents advantage. We unpack turn 1. Turn 2 he runs a unit of trenchers into my grill to jam me out of scenario, but S&P plus Joe plus the minifeat do the trick. NOTE TO SELF: The Winterguard have reposition. I forget to do this the entire game. Yikes. Must NOT FORGET REPO!
By turn 3, I have all of his jacks off the board, but am running very low on clock. He jams me with his remaining models and sticks Ashlyn with feat right in my face. I tilt for 2-3 minutes, and decide to just counterjam with a bajillion Winterguard and pass the turn with Vlad on 7 camp. NOTE TO SELF: I would have been better off on a 3 camp with Blood of Kings.
Turn 4, Vlad gets the job done himself.
Over lunch, JVM educates me on the following — instead of trying to attack Ashlyn, which is nigh impossible on her feat turn, I should have just positioned one of my WGI in front of her and used a Marauder to combo smite the small based model into her. That really never occurred to me... OMG what an awesome pro tip from one of the best players in the game. (BTW, Jake is a really cool guy.)
Ashlynn d'Elyse - WJ: +29 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Nomad - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Nomad - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Vanguard - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 0 Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 4 Major Harrison Gibbs - PC: 4 Ragman - PC: 4 Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 0 Stormblade Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 - Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2 - Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2 - Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2 Trencher Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper - Officer & Sniper: 5 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 THEME: Llaelese Resistance
Round 2
I play against Menoth Reznik 2, dropping Wolves.
Protectorate of Menoth - Pairing List 2 Theme: The Faithful Masses 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages - WJ: +29 - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Guardian - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Sanctifier - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
Champion of the Order of the Wall (Continued) Champion of the Order of the Wall - PC: 8 - Champion of the Order of the Wall (Continued) High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 6 Hand of Silence - PC: 7 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 0 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 3 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 5 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3X Initiates of the Wall (2 free, 1 paid)
Turn 1, he leaves Reznik too close to a unit of Doomreavers, and I am able to apparate, feat, and get 3 into him on a 1 camp. He dies.
We score the tournament game, and I rewind my unit of doomreavers and he back Reznik up 3”, and we play on for fun. The game goes 3 rounds, but my blast widget keeps him from doing too much havoc on feat turn (but wow, he completely destroyed one unit clustered behind a wall with a charging cavalry model.). After he feats, I’m able to clear charge lanes once again to get 3 feated doomies onto Reznik on a 1 camp, which is enough.
Round 3
Z. Agha, The Fate Keeper - WB: +27 - Baron Tonguelick, Lord of Warts - PC: 0 - Clockatrice - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Clockatrice - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Frightmare - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1) Lord Longfellow - PC: 0 Glimmer Imp - PC: 0 Hollowmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Lantern Man - PC: 3 Hollowmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Lantern Man - PC: 3 Mad Caps - Boss & 2 Grunts: 4 Mad Caps - Boss & 2 Grunts: 4 Twilight Sisters - Heidrun & Agrona: 7 Murder Crows - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 Neigh Slayers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7 - Neigh Slayer War Horse - PC: 4
We unpack, and Turn 2 Vlad is able to dispel a corrosive gas cloud terrain feature as well as Old Witch’s blind gun crow cloud in a manner that allows me to unpack Doomreavers, Thralls, and the Marauder in such a way to kill both his clockitricers (that was completely Priority 1 for me).
He’s not really able to recover from that attrition advantage. Although he completely collapses my right flank with his guns and ambushing crows, on Turn 4 I’m able to use a Hand of Fated Outrider to kill the Baron (OK, the Baron and Madelyn are a problem for Doomreavers), and am able to get both the Grolar and several feated doomreavers onto OW 2 for the caster kill.
Thoughts:
I liked the Marauder/Grolar combo. Assail on the Marauder is hilarious (and proved relevant in my game with the clockatrices) and the ability to hot swap it onto a Pathfinder jack with POW 18 knockdown and beat back was great. I will keep using this combo.
I need to remember to repo Winterguard. At Gen Con, I’m going to be able to drop the Mortars and swap in another unit with 3 more rockets, while upgrading one of the Marauders to a Juggernaut. Strict upgrade. I need to think about how to unpack that many models and advice is welcomed. I don’t think I’ll miss the advance move that much, as I rather like being able to screen my jacks with grunts. Access to Sorscha 0 is amazing.
I liked the list pairing. In a different pairing (maybe with Jaws), I could definitely see dropping Vlad to 4 jacks and stuffing in more infantry, but paired with Wolves I love 5 jacks. After all that shooting, it’s really a lot of beef.
I need to remember that Combo Smite is gold to knock your own dude into a high DEF caster.
Wow, Vlad’s toolkit is great. Call me late to the party. When his feat is on the board, you ALWAYS threaten assassination.
Personal play style preferfernce - I really liked having 5 units of Doomies. In order to manage my clock, I don’t have time to position everything so exactly in a manner that will keep a sufficient number alive. If I were a better player, perhaps I could go to 4. Five appears to be a sweet spot for me.
Outriders, even a min unit, are just sick with HOF. Everyone probably knows this. I didn’t get to use it today, but I relish the day I can hot swap it onto the Grolar. Oh yeah...
The Adjunct is useful every round. Having a cloud on a stick is great.
The Koldun Lords... man, love these guys. -2 ARM on the clockitrice won me the game. Now, I MUST REMMBER they also have PUPPET STRINGS. Wasn’t relevant today, but would have been had I needed the Grolar to score more damage on Old Witch.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 28, 2019 2:29:57 GMT
Great job!!!!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 28, 2019 6:34:54 GMT
Congrats, nice work!
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Post by steeltitan on Jul 28, 2019 6:36:08 GMT
Great job and nice report! Cheers!
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Post by auraco on Jul 28, 2019 17:38:34 GMT
Well done! Puppet string on the koldun lord is pretty good, it adds extra reliability to the outriders (and since it's range 10 it's not too hard to put it on theme even though they are quick) and to any shooting model in the list, pretty sure the Grolar would like it a lot in that list.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 4, 2019 7:18:50 GMT
I went 2-1 in the GenCon masters tournament with my previously posted lists. Game recaps:
1. Lost on clock with Vlad 2 into Coven bane spam. I lost the roll to go first, which hurt a bit. My major problem was that I failed to remember that Ghostly models can travel right past magic sword wielding doomies without suffering free strikes, so had a really rough turn 2. I also waited a turn too long to feat...yeah, sometimes you need to take the threat off the table early before your dudes die. I ended up 2 points on scenario but ran out of time and probably juice to get the job done.
2. Won on scenario with Vlad 2 into Fiona the Black Irregulars. He had Croes and Idrians. I struggled to make my pie plates of nope work, but went way up early on attrition by feasting Turn 2 before Fiona could feat, taking 2 Toros off the table.
3. Won on scenario with Vlad 1 into Locke jack spam, with a Vulcan leading the charge. It turns out that the Vulcan only threatens 14” with it’s guns, so if you have as many marauders and Juggernauts it becomes hard to protect against the feat. I was able to use my feat to productively get the Vulcan and one more jack off the table, and could clear the zones out on the following turn.
THOUGHTS:
- I like the Vlad 2 list. The Grolar and Marauder combo is working for me. Having one hard hitting jack with Pathfinder is great Alexia 2 was a champ in the game I lost and somewhat irrelevant in the game I won. Damn, but it’s really hard for opponents to protect against non-linear 16” threat vectors. I need to make better use of reposition, as well as think at least 1-2 turns ahead about where I want my Koldun lords to be. Errors in the list appear to be strictly related to the pilot at this point, so I think I want to just get more practice in with this build before changing things around.
- I like Vlad 1 Winterguard for what I’m trying to do with it. Given the new theme benefits and how many dudes you can get on the table for so few points, I could see going up one more jack while dropping to two units - i.e. drop the WGI to buy another Marauder and upgrade a Juggernaut to Beast. It’d be nice to stretch out another 1” of threat on Vlad’s feat turn.
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