|
Post by mydnight on Jul 5, 2019 0:30:51 GMT
So, looking at the coming theme force changes, it is likely that FM and EI are going to receive nerfs, namely in terms of the warjack benefits. It seems to me PP cannot balance the requisition system in combined arms themes that give jacks bonuses and will likely remove them or move them to CM. It also seems likely as a way to balance Judicator in EI. In addition, they are doing away with deployment extensions, hence EI will be double hit and will likely gain an infantry boosting bonus instead.
On the bright side, looking at what was spoiled for storm division, Guardians will likely get access to many character jacks. Anyone think they will put all three in? (Eye, Blood, Hand). Perhaps CM will gain access to Scourge and Blessing. The Avatar will be buffed -- if they don't the Creator himself will descend from Urcaen and smite them.
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jul 5, 2019 15:03:46 GMT
I'm not expecting any buffs to our jacks in the near future myself. It would be nice if I'm wrong though.
|
|
Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
|
Post by Hashmal on Jul 5, 2019 16:53:12 GMT
I mean, is it likely?
EI is good right now, but it is not running away with games in competitive matches. Prot's recent high level success has come on the back of Harby and Initiates far over any theme force benefit.
The Blessed benefit is complained about in tandem with the Judicator, who I think is likely to receive at least a points adjustment. Have we seen any indication that this benefit is going away?
As for FM, why would the Hand benefit go away? It's awesome, but still requires combined arms to trigger, and there are some fantastic infantry in FM to pick from.
I'm not sold on the need for nerfs to either theme force in terms of their synergistic Warjack support, as that's kind of Prot's thing and has been for multiple editions. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a rollback on Blessed Weapons I suppose, but a change to FM would be surprising.
As far as jacks getting buffs, I'm expecting at best points reductions to a few. Avatar and the Vanquisher are the two likeliest candidates, but could also see Eye of Truth and the Templar coming down a bit too. I also expect Blessing will come down. Past that, who knows.
And the Revelator of course, but I think that one is a given.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Jul 5, 2019 21:51:50 GMT
I mean, is it likely? EI is good right now, but it is not running away with games in competitive matches. Prot's recent high level success has come on the back of Harby and Initiates far over any theme force benefit. The Blessed benefit is complained about in tandem with the Judicator, who I think is likely to receive at least a points adjustment. Have we seen any indication that this benefit is going away? As for FM, why would the Hand benefit go away? It's awesome, but still requires combined arms to trigger, and there are some fantastic infantry in FM to pick from. I'm not sold on the need for nerfs to either theme force in terms of their synergistic Warjack support, as that's kind of Prot's thing and has been for multiple editions. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a rollback on Blessed Weapons I suppose, but a change to FM would be surprising. As far as jacks getting buffs, I'm expecting at best points reductions to a few. Avatar and the Vanquisher are the two likeliest candidates, but could also see Eye of Truth and the Templar coming down a bit too. I also expect Blessing will come down. Past that, who knows. And the Revelator of course, but I think that one is a given. If FM and EI benefits stay, and CM benefits stay, why would anyone bother playing CM? What benefits would CM have to gain to be viable?
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jul 5, 2019 22:14:28 GMT
I mean, is it likely? EI is good right now, but it is not running away with games in competitive matches. Prot's recent high level success has come on the back of Harby and Initiates far over any theme force benefit. The Blessed benefit is complained about in tandem with the Judicator, who I think is likely to receive at least a points adjustment. Have we seen any indication that this benefit is going away? As for FM, why would the Hand benefit go away? It's awesome, but still requires combined arms to trigger, and there are some fantastic infantry in FM to pick from. I'm not sold on the need for nerfs to either theme force in terms of their synergistic Warjack support, as that's kind of Prot's thing and has been for multiple editions. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a rollback on Blessed Weapons I suppose, but a change to FM would be surprising. As far as jacks getting buffs, I'm expecting at best points reductions to a few. Avatar and the Vanquisher are the two likeliest candidates, but could also see Eye of Truth and the Templar coming down a bit too. I also expect Blessing will come down. Past that, who knows. And the Revelator of course, but I think that one is a given. If FM and EI benefits stay, and CM benefits stay, why would anyone bother playing CM? What benefits would CM have to gain to be viable? Repo solos and choir is a pretty big deal. I mostly play CM now.
|
|
privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
|
Post by privvy on Jul 6, 2019 13:46:18 GMT
Requisition points is going to open CM right up. Being able to have a full Idrian or other mercenary tar pit while also not losing free options will help a lot.
|
|
Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
|
Post by Hashmal on Jul 6, 2019 15:39:12 GMT
I'm with dox in finding significant value in Repo3 on Choir and solos. Elias Gade becomes a badass. Choir protect from bouncing effects like Ashes to Ashes or Electroleap or Trick Shot - and with Cygnar likely to have a renaissance, you'd better get good at defending against those abilities again.
Plus, it is highly likely the Requisition points will favor jack builds. I expect to see two Vassals as an option in CM, but not in EI or FM, as an example. That's not adding in that the new benefit for EI is more likely to benefit infantry, not jacks, so you'll be leaving a benefit on the table if you go pure jack spam.
That's not to say that the themes won't see their benefits changed. But I think the logic is that those themes need those changes and to justify from that angle. There is certainly space for all three to exist with Jack benefits.
|
|
martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
|
Post by martini on Jul 10, 2019 17:17:21 GMT
From dev chat Judicator 35 pts Avatar 18 pts and avaible in more themes
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jul 10, 2019 17:59:08 GMT
Ehhhh....meh
|
|
|
Post by dragonstitch on Jul 10, 2019 18:24:43 GMT
Well I guess the Avatar will still sit on the shelf, seeing as they did not fix it's core issues.
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jul 10, 2019 19:30:38 GMT
Well I guess the Avatar will still sit on the shelf, seeing as they did not fix it's core issues. Which is? 18pts is probably fine. But if other jacks also get cheaper around it, then its probably still overcosted in context.
|
|
blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
|
Post by blakeh1 on Jul 10, 2019 21:39:40 GMT
Being able to take both Hand of Judgement and Eye of Truth in theme for Malekus or Feora 1!
Daughters retain Ambush
I'm tempted to try this
Malekus - Revelator - Eye of Truth - Hand of Judgement Daughter of the Flame x1 Ambush Flameguard Cleansers Max - use 1 req pt to get the command attachment Min choir 2 Vassals of Menoth ( 2nd requisition pt) 1 Wrack 1 Wrack (3rd requistiion pt)
Now if the theme allowed Sev(0) that would be amazing I would have him running Hand of Judgement and use the 3rd requisition pt for him instead of the wrack
Also, not having access to a Hierophant kind of hurts this list(theme)
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Jul 10, 2019 21:59:16 GMT
Guardians seem like a decent 'splash' theme. Sometime you just need some light unit support (ambushing daughters, flamebringers) to support your jacks, and you get to bring 2 good character jacks too while you're at it. Durst+Eye seems pretty hilarious.
Also yes the avatar's main problem was that he ate up points that didn't give anything for free, so now he may potentially see play. Using the 2 free vassals to ensure he's always at the full 4 focus makes him our most threatening heavy.
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jul 10, 2019 22:25:30 GMT
I still feel that the Flameguard aren't quite rounded out yet.
I'm really not sure what they need, but they need something. Maybe they need more solos in the same way that Exemplar have their seneschals, or an elite, hard-hitting unit.
|
|
|
Post by dragonstitch on Jul 10, 2019 23:27:23 GMT
Well I guess the Avatar will still sit on the shelf, seeing as they did not fix it's core issues. Which is? 18pts is probably fine. But if other jacks also get cheaper around it, then its probably still overcosted in context. Let's see, eye of menoth is still useless, it can still get disrupted, it still has RNG focus, It still needs 2 vassal baby sitting it 24/7 (Basically making it cost 24 points), it is still separate from the battle group so our jack buffs don't work on it, infantry casters don't want it since it take points away from troops they need, our other character jacks out preform it in almost every way, the crusader, templar, and Sanctifier can out perform it, and they can get out jack buffs. As well it is a glorified beatstick that is 2 point less then taking 2 crusaders which will do the job better.
|
|