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Post by auraco on Jul 23, 2019 19:30:22 GMT
With the changes to LOTF, id wager LoS is actually an effective counter. You have plenty of access to counter charge/tactician which is solid vs pacmaning. Skirova is only one shield guard, but a fantastic one for LOTF, imagine shield guarding to watch him waste his entire activation not killing skirova. Everything in that list hits hard, has crit knockdown and one pikeman has decent odds of killing a tharn. Seems like some good trading opportunity. The problem for legion of steel against the tharn is not the lord of the feast, it's the ravagers , death wolves and bloodweavers killing spree, ravagers casually kill pikemen, and with no spot removal it's very hard to deal with a unit that has vengeance like the ravagers. That's a lot of possible models with killing spree, more than enough to overloard our countercharge.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 24, 2019 23:36:01 GMT
Not to side track too much, anyone have an inclination if valachev is staying in jaws? Crows just picked up prey, toss on valachev and i think they're a much better pick over kayazy assassins.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 25, 2019 0:17:26 GMT
We know from the spoilers that Valachev is definitely not in either Jaws or WGK. We can assume he’s in Wolves since he’s a Graylord model. LOS and AK are the known unknowns.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 25, 2019 4:04:28 GMT
Not to side track too much, anyone have an inclination if valachev is staying in jaws? Crows just picked up prey, toss on valachev and i think they're a much better pick over kayazy assassins. Just to clarify: you're saying that Croe's Cutthroats gained Prey? Did they lose anything to justify this?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 25, 2019 6:33:27 GMT
With the changes to LOTF, id wager LoS is actually an effective counter. You have plenty of access to counter charge/tactician which is solid vs pacmaning. Skirova is only one shield guard, but a fantastic one for LOTF, imagine shield guarding to watch him waste his entire activation not killing skirova. Everything in that list hits hard, has crit knockdown and one pikeman has decent odds of killing a tharn. Seems like some good trading opportunity. Lord of the Feast still has Grievous Wounds, so, she won't die immediately, but she also can't heal. Not to side track too much, anyone have an inclination if valachev is staying in jaws? Crows just picked up prey, toss on valachev and i think they're a much better pick over kayazy assassins. Just to clarify: you're saying that Croe's Cutthroats gained Prey? Did they lose anything to justify this? They said last night on the dev hangout. I recall that they said points stayed the same, but didn't explicitly confirm that they lost anything, so I assume no, or they would've mentioned.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 25, 2019 7:27:39 GMT
Not to side track too much, anyone have an inclination if valachev is staying in jaws? Crows just picked up prey, toss on valachev and i think they're a much better pick over kayazy assassins. Just to clarify: you're saying that Croe's Cutthroats gained Prey? Did they lose anything to justify this? Yes, they said so on the dev talk yesterday. No they didnt mention any other changes, but they do lose their status as an overpriced character unit that sucks and now might be worth their points, so it's all good.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 25, 2019 7:29:36 GMT
Not to side track too much, anyone have an inclination if valachev is staying in jaws? Crows just picked up prey, toss on valachev and i think they're a much better pick over kayazy assassins. Given that Murdoch is only in Gravediggers and the Priest is only in Exemplar Interdiction, I think it's save to surmise that Valachev will only be in Wolves. Rip abusing Aiyana or Halberderps in any other theme.
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Post by Valcaro on Jul 25, 2019 9:24:34 GMT
Doesn't seem very thought through to me. Also Wolves is probably the theme which wants merc units the least, unless you want to double down on the debuff potential. Not sure it's really needed. Kinda sad Jaws lost it, though I don't complain, Jaws seems to be pretty awesome right now
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 25, 2019 11:01:40 GMT
Crowe's might still be a good choice over kayazy, but definitely less enthused. Repo 3" and in faction buffs sounded swell.
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Post by auraco on Jul 25, 2019 12:17:40 GMT
Just to clarify: you're saying that Croe's Cutthroats gained Prey? Did they lose anything to justify this? Yes, they said so on the dev talk yesterday. No they didnt mention any other changes, but they do lose their status as an overpriced character unit that sucks and now might be worth their points, so it's all good. They might be a character units that is worth their point, but I don't think they will be for us, prey is clearly a buff, but prey is... overrated and has a ton of counterplay, the real way to get good work out of the Croes is to leverage backstab and we don't have any way to do it, spells like telekinesis and befuddle are the tools that really make them work, and sadly we don't have any fancy tech like that.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 25, 2019 13:33:03 GMT
Yes, they said so on the dev talk yesterday. No they didnt mention any other changes, but they do lose their status as an overpriced character unit that sucks and now might be worth their points, so it's all good. They might be a character units that is worth their point, but I don't think they will be for us, prey is clearly a buff, but prey is... overrated and has a ton of counterplay, the real way to get good work out of the Croes is to leverage backstab and we don't have any way to do it, spells like telekinesis and befuddle are the tools that really make them work, and sadly we don't have any fancy tech like that. You are absolutely right. I was just refuting the notion that Croes needed to lose something in order to justify getting prey. Which simply isnt true.
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Post by auraco on Jul 25, 2019 14:13:13 GMT
They might be a character units that is worth their point, but I don't think they will be for us, prey is clearly a buff, but prey is... overrated and has a ton of counterplay, the real way to get good work out of the Croes is to leverage backstab and we don't have any way to do it, spells like telekinesis and befuddle are the tools that really make them work, and sadly we don't have any fancy tech like that. You are absolutely right. I was just refuting the notion that Croes needed to lose something in order to justify getting prey. Which simply isnt true. Oh yeah, currently they are way too expansive for what the bring to the table, they don't need to lose anything to balance them getting prey. Related question, how powerful do you guys actually vallue prey? From having played a lot of games against Idrians and Brigid and Caul, I tend to value it less and less each time I play against it. It's not a bad rule, but it's far from being a universal +2 that everyone seems to make it out to be. It does influence positioning, but I haven't found it so hard to actually play around it. Of course having it is better than not having it, but beyond that, is it a rule that is worth that much?
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Post by borderprince on Jul 25, 2019 15:15:44 GMT
Related question, how powerful do you guys actually vallue prey? From having played a lot of games against Idrians and Brigid and Caul, I tend to value it less and less each time I play against it. It's not a bad rule, but it's far from being a universal +2 that everyone seems to make it out to be. It does influence positioning, but I haven't found it so hard to actually play around it. Of course having it is better than not having it, but beyond that, is it a rule that is worth that much? It's...variable. When I've used it, having a caster independent buff that can be moved around is sometimes really helpful. But only if you have mutliple suitable targets for the models with Prey, who tend to have lower-end POW/P+S.
But there's counterplay as you say.
However, sometimes you can anticipate the counter-play to preempt things like positioning decisions. Probably not worth it on an expensive unit like Croes, but Blyth and Bull can make use of Prey to solo hunt for a fairly cheap cost and so also discourage solos from going near to flags and the like. That can be handy, as opponents start to have to think about whether they really need to contest with that solo this turn, being fairly sure B&B will take the solo out, losing it for future use. Of course in Khador we can just use Eliminators to do that about as effectively, but not everyone has that kind of option.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 25, 2019 15:15:47 GMT
I think it's a pretty solid improvement. They are +1 point over kayazy, lose anatomical precision, gain a gun, and permanent backstab for 3 points less (19 for kayazy+ UA). The fact They have AD makes prey a bit better in my book, helps stop your opponent from avoiding them. RAT 7 pow 12 is pretty decent at clearing out units of their prey target. It's not universal +2, but in JAWs i think this unit will be a kind of spot removal for small/med based units.
Edit: Not being in faction/valachev is pretty huge though.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 25, 2019 19:51:50 GMT
I can't find the official confirmation, but there's a picture floating around showing that Armoured Corps' benefits are the Repair benefit, and 'Man-o-War units and Tanker solos in this army gain Advance Move'. So no Drakhun and Chariot moves, but Units + Tankers is going to work out as more moved things than the 1/unit limit from before.
Poor old Kovnik getting left behind, though, and no sneaky move for Sorscha3
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