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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 17:47:22 GMT
Kossites dropped to 6/10 Point reduction (I believe 9/15) for Assault Komandos Jaws remains as a theme
Black Ivan (who you have to think is getting buffed) also into Jaws. Behemoth there as well
Requisition options (others please add) but big ones are Free unit of eliminators free solo (aka Yuri - see below) Free command attachment (so underboss or Adjunct)
Benefits are that our jacks get pathfinder (huge) and that after deployment you can put a 5 inch forest anywhere fully within 18 inches of your back edge (Bigger than huge). Nothing which says you have to have it 3 inches from other terrain. No advanced moves which seem largely to be going away.
Depending on your capacity to buff (B1; v1; S2?) feels like you can create a very scary "no go" zone for Yuri and his 2 best friends to hide behind. Ditto OW2 - mostly because you can spam out BC on stuff. One could also see Irusk2 fairly strong here - allowing you to create for him a forest area where you can hide everything.
For giggles. Yuri and 2 manhunters without any buffs have a 7% chance to one round a railless. Debuff it in any way (curse of shadows?) and goes up to 43%.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 3, 2019 17:56:30 GMT
The solo has to be small or medium based, but otherwise spot on
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on Jul 3, 2019 18:03:29 GMT
Karchev loves this, Harkevich now feels a bit redundant for this theme due to his field marshal pathfinder ability.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 18:07:41 GMT
The solo has to be small or medium based, but otherwise spot on +1 Though I don't think there IS a large based solo (yet) who plays in that list.
I am REALLY warming to the idea of Irusk2. I think with the forest template you are going to be able to create just miserable choices for folks. Have to lay it out on the table to see how it looks going second into something "fast" like Superfueled Raillesses.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 18:11:43 GMT
Karchev loves this, Harkevich now feels a bit redundant for this theme due to his field marshal pathfinder ability. Yeah - this is a great theme. Karchev is going to love pathfinder on all jacks. Irusk2 is going to love that forest template.
Other takes?
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 18:20:17 GMT
Kossites dropped to 6/10 Point reduction (I believe 9/15) for Assault Komandos Jaws remains as a theme
Black Ivan (who you have to think is getting buffed) also into Jaws. Behemoth there as well
Requisition options (others please add) but big ones are Free unit of eliminators free solo (aka Yuri - see below) Free command attachment (so underboss or Adjunct)
Benefits are that our jacks get pathfinder (huge) and that after deployment you can put a 5 inch forest anywhere fully within 18 inches of your back edge (Bigger than huge). Nothing which says you have to have it 3 inches from other terrain. No advanced moves which seem largely to be going away.
Depending on your capacity to buff (B1; v1; S2?) feels like you can create a very scary "no go" zone for Yuri and his 2 best friends to hide behind. Ditto OW2 - mostly because you can spam out BC on stuff. One could also see Irusk2 fairly strong here - allowing you to create for him a forest area where you can hide everything.
For giggles. Yuri and 2 manhunters without any buffs have a 7% chance to one round a railless. Debuff it in any way (curse of shadows?) and goes up to 43%.
You have a serious obsession with railesses, it borders on the unhealthy I'm still not convinced by the kossites being any good, I'd rather have them cost more and actually do something more than mat 5 pow 8 or rat 4 shots. The biggest benefits for the kommandoes is that they no longer hinder the free options or the advance move, might be worth trying a min unit with 3 flamers, the anti healing grenades have their uses. The new jaws is better than the old one, but that isn't saying much, it was terrible to begin with, I'm still not sold on the new one even if it's better than before. Without knowing more about any change to black ivan his inclusion in jaws is pretty meaningless, it's currently not worth its points over a regular destroyer Having elimnators as a requisition option is good, it's also probably the final nail in the forge seer coffin.
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 18:22:57 GMT
Karchev loves this, Harkevich now feels a bit redundant for this theme due to his field marshal pathfinder ability. Yeah - this is a great theme. Karchev is going to love pathfinder on all jacks. Irusk2 is going to love that forest template.
Other takes?
-Malakov2, maybe? In that theme escort is pretty much just a better mobility. -Strakhov1 LOVES native pathfinder on all his jacks, overrun on pathfinder jacks is bonkers the forest we get to put in play is also good for him here to help protect his stuff.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 18:34:15 GMT
Kossites dropped to 6/10 Point reduction (I believe 9/15) for Assault Komandos Jaws remains as a theme
Black Ivan (who you have to think is getting buffed) also into Jaws. Behemoth there as well
Requisition options (others please add) but big ones are Free unit of eliminators free solo (aka Yuri - see below) Free command attachment (so underboss or Adjunct)
Benefits are that our jacks get pathfinder (huge) and that after deployment you can put a 5 inch forest anywhere fully within 18 inches of your back edge (Bigger than huge). Nothing which says you have to have it 3 inches from other terrain. No advanced moves which seem largely to be going away.
Depending on your capacity to buff (B1; v1; S2?) feels like you can create a very scary "no go" zone for Yuri and his 2 best friends to hide behind. Ditto OW2 - mostly because you can spam out BC on stuff. One could also see Irusk2 fairly strong here - allowing you to create for him a forest area where you can hide everything.
For giggles. Yuri and 2 manhunters without any buffs have a 7% chance to one round a railless. Debuff it in any way (curse of shadows?) and goes up to 43%.
You have a serious obsession with railesses, it borders on the unhealthy I want to be able to have a benchmark. In SR2020 having the ability to kill top line battle engines is more important than ever. You just HAVE to have the ability to be able to put some fear into them or else they are the ultimate board bully. I, for one, am disappointed in the PP choices in that respect - I really don't like the idea that while jacks and beasts start losing effectiveness as they lose columns and spirals BEs keep going until they die. It wouldn't be so bad if they couldn't power up.....but they can and thus gain a lot of the effectiveness of Jacks without the downsides (don't have to be in control, can't be disrupted). The Derp turtle, for example, would be just fine slightly reduced in points but then not enraged up with the whips. Very iconic and themematic that it could riled up by opponents swings. Ditto my complaint about the dawnsled.
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 18:37:22 GMT
Yeah but still, the railess is pretty tame compared the say the Trident, Animantarax, Supreme guardian, it doesn't have the pow or boosted attacks to threathen heavies and it's rat 6 limit how effective it can be against infantry, it's by no mean bad, but it need support to actually bully the board.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 18:47:18 GMT
Yeah but still, the railess is pretty tame compared the say the Trident, Animantarax, Supreme guardian, it doesn't have the pow or boosted attacks to threathen heavies and it's rat 6 limit how effective it can be against infantry, it's by no mean bad, but it need support to actually bully the board. Must make CG sad that they don't bring artillary which reduces armor or rust on a stick or that their best casters feat doesn't have S&P or that they have solos that have rust ;-)
I am open to other benchmarks.
The Trident is ARM 20 (effectively), Def 12 and 30 boxes.
Derp: ARm 20, Def 10, and 35 boxes SG: Def 8, ARM 19, 33 boxes and you have to think about the defensive strike and what you are sending into it RL: Def 9, ARM 19, 36 boxes
It FEELS like the right thing to benchmark against. I like it better than say "Ironclad" because that is easy to kill. These are harder so you can look at combos and then the percentage swings and say "OK, with X I get 6% but if I add in Y &Z I get it up to 80." For me that is valuable data when list constructing or thinking about how much support I need.
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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 19:07:03 GMT
Karchev loves this, Harkevich now feels a bit redundant for this theme due to his field marshal pathfinder ability. Uhhhh.....He lost Field Marshal: Pathfinder 3 years ago, bud.
He has Field Marshal: Reposition 3 now.
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on Jul 3, 2019 19:12:41 GMT
Karchev loves this, Harkevich now feels a bit redundant for this theme due to his field marshal pathfinder ability. Uhhhh.....He lost Field Marshal: Pathfinder 3 years ago, bud.
He has Field Marshal: Reposition 3 now.
Oh right, stupid me. his pathfinder comes from the mobility spell now. it's been quite a while since I played with him sadly. still, this theme doesn't synergize with Harky that much.
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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 19:29:59 GMT
Uhhhh.....He lost Field Marshal: Pathfinder 3 years ago, bud.
He has Field Marshal: Reposition 3 now.
Oh right, stupid me. his pathfinder comes from the mobility spell now. it's been quite a while since I played with him sadly. still, this theme doesn't synergize with Harky that much. Yeah. One can only hope Harkevich got some love...
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jul 3, 2019 20:09:41 GMT
Random thought: if Kossites are now 6/10, would a min unit of Kossites be an unreasonable use of a requisition point? I mean, there are 6 point solos that you can get as your requisition?
Could be interesting and could make them see play more.
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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 20:31:52 GMT
Random thought: if Kossites are now 6/10, would a min unit of Kossites be an unreasonable use of a requisition point? I mean, there are 6 point solos that you can get as your requisition? Could be interesting and could make them see play more. I’m betting the books have already been printed. That ship has sailed. Literally. Because they print the stuff in China.
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