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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jul 9, 2019 9:20:26 GMT
Do not do what? Let a typo go through? Do you really believe a marketing team would read rules? This is not a marketing problem, just a proofreading one. And, oddly enough, one that GW have done on a near constant basis for decades, yet hasn't killed their games (other factors contributed to that). Haha yes, and sometimes they embrace those typos. In the last Ogre kingdoms book Butchers (ogre spellcasters) could have a fist weapon that had optional use a shield. Any character that has access to mundane armour could have magic armour. Spellcasters normally can't, but the fistweapon seemed to allow it. In an early errata is was ruled that "though it wasn't their intent, they thought it would he fun for em so let's allow it". Which was a big mistake because now we had lv4 spellcasters with 5 attacks, Weaponskill 10, 5 wounds, Tougness 5 AND a 5+/4++ save roaming the board 😂
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Post by netdragon on Jul 9, 2019 14:30:15 GMT
PP's problem is and will be marketing. They don't have it. Lets JUST look at ONE instance. They let a typo go through on shield guard when Hugerford goes on likely the biggest pod-cast and one of the most important retailers. Now Chain Attack is all in on WM/H so no DIRECT foul but it erodes brand. Companies with a marketing function do NOT do that. Now they do seem to have some of the Comm side of the house done. Their graphics are pretty solid and I think their packaging is better than a lot of stuff (looking at YOU WotC) but their marketing at both a tactical and strategic level just makes me CRINGE. Consumer good is not my area of expertise but some of this is common across the discipline.
The typo is just the lesser of their problems. For years now PP has managed to kill all the hype about their releases, CID turning into a hype-killing machine as loss aversion made people focus on the nerfs and not on the juicy new content (also their misguided "Design space" design philosophy).
Riot Quest looks dumb and awful, the product design for MonPoc has really kept me out of it (although I'm a HUGE mech and Kaiju fan), and they haven't found any solution to the loss of Press gangers, which are vital to any community.
Hope it finally improves inthe future.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 9, 2019 15:45:24 GMT
Companies with a marketing function do NOT do that. Do not do what? Let a typo go through? Do you really believe a marketing team would read rules? This is not a marketing problem, just a proofreading one. it is, essentially, a product spec sheet. YES. marketing would read those with a fine tooth comb....multiple people. At least 3 times. You are trying to build interest in a key marketing event. It is literally "what they do".
I could go on.
Just by way of contrast watch a GW podcast - people that clearly understand it is a JOB and treat it professionally versus PP and the yuck it up crowd. I don't CARE that someone has a toy pig or a shirt that doesn't work with the green screen.
Yes yes. Fun at work. Yada yada yada. You get to have fun at work if you flawlessly execute. Otherwise it just makes it look like Timmy wanted to start a game company.
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Post by marxlives on Jul 9, 2019 16:13:52 GMT
I'm real confused because this is the healthiest I've seen this game be and people freak out at the slightest hint of anything happening. Remember when magic announced the end of Extended? Half the player base's faces melted off and blood rained from the sky. Then again with... Oh. Every set. Ever. They did something nostalgic, you know what that means! End of the road, it's all death throes! Let's face it. We are the WHFB crowd of PP. Which is a good thing. Once the line is established I would not expect massive releases, just like WHFB. However what PP has that WHFB didn't is well fleshed out factions that can each be competitive in a meta. Honestly, PP can just release hobby support materials like campaigns and the WMHs will be fine for a long while before a new edition is release. I think 5k, like Monpoc is a good thing. It allows PP to cater to existing and new players who don't like the steampunk genre and expands their design space while not bloating a complete system. It also taps into the lore hounds who like the connected universe the WHFB and 40k used to share.
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Post by netdragon on Jul 9, 2019 16:46:11 GMT
Do not do what? Let a typo go through? Do you really believe a marketing team would read rules? This is not a marketing problem, just a proofreading one. it is, essentially, a product spec sheet. YES. marketing would read those with a fine tooth comb....multiple people. At least 3 times. You are trying to build interest in a key marketing event. It is literally "what they do".
I could go on.
Just by way of contrast watch a GW podcast - people that clearly understand it is a JOB and treat it professionally versus PP and the yuck it up crowd. I don't CARE that someone has a toy pig or a shirt that doesn't work with the green screen.
Yes yes. Fun at work. Yada yada yada. You get to have fun at work if you flawlessly execute. Otherwise it just makes it look like Timmy wanted to start a game company.
That reminds me of something PP has been doing for a long time that has REALLY bothers me: the Troll attitude.
I mean, let's be honest. Whenever the community was almost shouting to PP that there was a problem (Cryx Theme forces, Una2, nemo3, hayley2) the reaction from the Wills was usually "hahaha, these people telling us how to do our job. Let the meta settle. Git gud", only to end up nerfing the problem a couple of month later. That, along the lines of totally unoriginal designs until - maybe - infernals, makes me really think that they are not great game designers at all.
And that's ok, working with WM/H is a daunting task, but having a trollish attitude towards something that you know that will never be truly balanced or can always be better designed really puts me off about PP's image as a brand and company. And I mean it being a guy that's totally a fan of Matt Wilson from MK1.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 9, 2019 17:12:21 GMT
I think they've generally been good as game designers; of the limited factions Convergence, Grymkin, and Infernals all have fairly unique rulesets and designs that still fit within the existing game systems (well, we'll have to wait and see on Infernals!). That's not an easy thing to do.
Sure, they'll often get an individual model or theme wrong, and they phoned it in a bit with Crucible Guard (Nothing original about them) but the overall game is very well designed.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 9, 2019 17:40:03 GMT
it is, essentially, a product spec sheet. YES. marketing would read those with a fine tooth comb....multiple people. At least 3 times. You are trying to build interest in a key marketing event. It is literally "what they do".
I could go on.
Just by way of contrast watch a GW podcast - people that clearly understand it is a JOB and treat it professionally versus PP and the yuck it up crowd. I don't CARE that someone has a toy pig or a shirt that doesn't work with the green screen.
Yes yes. Fun at work. Yada yada yada. You get to have fun at work if you flawlessly execute. Otherwise it just makes it look like Timmy wanted to start a game company.
That reminds me of something PP has been doing for a long time that has REALLY bothers me: the Troll attitude.
I mean, let's be honest. Whenever the community was almost shouting to PP that there was a problem (Cryx Theme forces, Una2, nemo3, hayley2) the reaction from the Wills was usually "hahaha, these people telling us how to do our job. Let the meta settle. Git gud", only to end up nerfing the problem a couple of month later. That, along the lines of totally unoriginal designs until - maybe - infernals, makes me really think that they are not great game designers at all.
And that's ok, working with WM/H is a daunting task, but having a trollish attitude towards something that you know that will never be truly balanced or can always be better designed really puts me off about PP's image as a brand and company. And I mean it being a guy that's totally a fan of Matt Wilson from MK1.
One of the reasons that I was sad to see Will P. move on is that he has a more adult attitude. C'est la vi.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Jul 9, 2019 20:41:58 GMT
I didn't shift the goalpost. You just failed to properly read my first post, in your rush to prove me wrong.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jul 10, 2019 4:22:32 GMT
One of the reasons that I was sad to see Will P. move on is that he has a more adult attitude. C'est la vi. I completely agree with this.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 10, 2019 5:40:03 GMT
it is, essentially, a product spec sheet. YES. marketing would read those with a fine tooth comb....multiple people. At least 3 times. You are trying to build interest in a key marketing event. It is literally "what they do".
I could go on.
Just by way of contrast watch a GW podcast - people that clearly understand it is a JOB and treat it professionally versus PP and the yuck it up crowd. I don't CARE that someone has a toy pig or a shirt that doesn't work with the green screen.
Yes yes. Fun at work. Yada yada yada. You get to have fun at work if you flawlessly execute. Otherwise it just makes it look like Timmy wanted to start a game company.
That reminds me of something PP has been doing for a long time that has REALLY bothers me: the Troll attitude.
I mean, let's be honest. Whenever the community was almost shouting to PP that there was a problem (Cryx Theme forces, Una2, nemo3, hayley2) the reaction from the Wills was usually "hahaha, these people telling us how to do our job. Let the meta settle. Git gud", only to end up nerfing the problem a couple of month later. That, along the lines of totally unoriginal designs until - maybe - infernals, makes me really think that they are not great game designers at all.
And that's ok, working with WM/H is a daunting task, but having a trollish attitude towards something that you know that will never be truly balanced or can always be better designed really puts me off about PP's image as a brand and company. And I mean it being a guy that's totally a fan of Matt Wilson from MK1.
Then they are blow off the forum, blames us for our complaint. Ha, what a hypocrisy! It seems that they did not think their own failure and bad attitude. I fear that PP will be more familiar to the lies and try to hide the truth and shut the mouth in the future. Starting to ridiculous 'free rider' insistence, well, honestly, I don't get it. What I know is dawn will come. Whatever they tries to slaughter the roosters, it cannot stop the sunrise. What I fear is, how much roosters are able to see the next sun.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 10, 2019 14:11:32 GMT
Do not do what? Let a typo go through? Do you really believe a marketing team would read rules? This is not a marketing problem, just a proofreading one. And, oddly enough, one that GW have done on a near constant basis for decades, yet hasn't killed their games (other factors contributed to that). Yes, but that was par for the course for GW.
PP was originally founded as the anti-GW company that doesn't do what GW does. Stuff like actually caring about Game Balance, organized play, rule clarity, etc...
Its somewhat dumb to let a rule error like that through when you are priding yourself as a company who writes a tight ruleset. Furthermore, any company with a PR department should be monitoring all of their interactions with the public to ensure they are consistent with the company's goals. IE: making sure an employee getting interviewed doesn't make basic mistakes regarding their product.
Disney wouldn't tolerate one of their spokesmen getting interviewed and stating grossly incorrect facts about some product of theirs, or genuniely pissing off their entire fanbase.
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Post by michael on Jul 10, 2019 15:22:09 GMT
And, oddly enough, one that GW have done on a near constant basis for decades, yet hasn't killed their games (other factors contributed to that). Yes, but that was par for the course for GW.
PP was originally founded as the anti-GW company that doesn't do what GW does. Stuff like actually caring about Game Balance, organized play, rule clarity, etc...
Its somewhat dumb to let a rule error like that through when you are priding yourself as a company who writes a tight ruleset. Furthermore, any company with a PR department should be monitoring all of their interactions with the public to ensure they are consistent with the company's goals. IE: making sure an employee getting interviewed doesn't make basic mistakes regarding their product.
Disney wouldn't tolerate one of their spokesmen getting interviewed and stating grossly incorrect facts about some product of theirs, or genuniely pissing off their entire fanbase.
Disney is also approximately five orders of magnitude larger than Privateer and has roughly four thousand times the number of employees. So, you know, there’s that.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jul 10, 2019 16:10:50 GMT
Yes, but that was par for the course for GW.
PP was originally founded as the anti-GW company that doesn't do what GW does. Stuff like actually caring about Game Balance, organized play, rule clarity, etc...
Its somewhat dumb to let a rule error like that through when you are priding yourself as a company who writes a tight ruleset. Furthermore, any company with a PR department should be monitoring all of their interactions with the public to ensure they are consistent with the company's goals. IE: making sure an employee getting interviewed doesn't make basic mistakes regarding their product.
Disney wouldn't tolerate one of their spokesmen getting interviewed and stating grossly incorrect facts about some product of theirs, or genuniely pissing off their entire fanbase.
Disney is also approximately five orders of magnitude larger than Privateer and has roughly four thousand times the number of employees. So, you know, there’s that. And they STILL menaged to mess up 50% of that last star wars film.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 10, 2019 16:38:01 GMT
And, oddly enough, one that GW have done on a near constant basis for decades, yet hasn't killed their games (other factors contributed to that). Yes, but that was par for the course for GW.
PP was originally founded as the anti-GW company that doesn't do what GW does. Stuff like actually caring about Game Balance, organized play, rule clarity, etc...
Its somewhat dumb to let a rule error like that through when you are priding yourself as a company who writes a tight ruleset. Furthermore, any company with a PR department should be monitoring all of their interactions with the public to ensure they are consistent with the company's goals. IE: making sure an employee getting interviewed doesn't make basic mistakes regarding their product.
Disney wouldn't tolerate one of their spokesmen getting interviewed and stating grossly incorrect facts about some product of theirs, or genuniely pissing off their entire fanbase.
That's why their betrayal was so shocked.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Jul 10, 2019 16:47:52 GMT
For years now PP has managed to kill all the hype about hteir releases, CID turning into a hype-killing machine as loss aversion made people focus on the nerfs and not on the juicy new content
They have? Maybe here on the Lormaforums, but on the FB groups and discords, there's a ton more excitement.
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