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Post by marxlives on Jul 9, 2019 21:30:13 GMT
That is like saying Infinity is just an inferior imitation of 40k. It really matters what PP does with it. If you're responding to my comment (which you quoted), then I don't really understand. If you're responding to the quote from Droopingpuppy, then there's a lot more parallels between what we've heard of the new Warmachine and 40K, than there is between Infinity and 40K. But I agree that what matters is what PP does with it. We are really talking about something that hasn't come out yet but with its focus on warcasters augmenting all mechantrik items from robots to troop cybernetics, focus on smaller model counts than standard Warmachine, I would say it is WAY more reminiscent to something between Infinity and Neuromancer than 40k. At the end of the day 40k is really Gibbon's "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" in space. There really aren't any parallels to 40k within the sci-fi genre, even game style wise unless you start diving into historicals. I guess Mantic's Warpath is functionally close, but the use of exploding 8s, trays, and lore which is closer to Dead Space at this point, even Mantic has drifted from being a 40k clone.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 10, 2019 3:32:03 GMT
To me it feels similar to 40K in terms of "we already have these fantasy races, now we're going to have the same races fight IN SPACE". Assuming PP establishes aesthetic styles for the new models that are reminiscent of their WMH predecessors, which I feel is a reasonably safe bet, then it is likely to feel similar to 40K in terms of being a sci-fi universe where a lot of technology looks kind of old and anachronistic. But of course it's too early to actually know if that will be the case, so that's probably just me jumping the gun.
In terms of low model counts being closer to Infinity, I would mention that GW have some low model count 40K-setting games as well, but yes, that's a good point.
Well, like you say we're talking about something that hasn't come out yet, so I guess there's no sense in overthinking it. I'm reserving judgement until we know more, but right now I feel cautiously optimistic.
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Post by Charistoph on Jul 10, 2019 3:54:34 GMT
GW has run 40K's Kill Team for a fairly long time now, often getting rebooted every other edition or so. The advantage of it was that it could be done at minimal investment, and could be done with fewer models than the average Infinity force.
But we'll see if Warcaster Neo-Mechanika 5K sticks to that game size of models. WMH used to be pretty small, too. Admittedly, unit sizes started at the 6-10 brackets with Prime Mk 1, instead of the approximately 3 or 5 that they've initially claimed for this setup.
It would be interesting to see how WMH would fair if 5W Infantry were limited to 3, and the 1W models were limited to 5.
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Post by mydnight on Jul 10, 2019 4:22:06 GMT
I'm guessing they will get rid of 'I go you go' and do some sort of activation turn taking that is popular now. Company of Iron allowed them to toy with that a bit so they should have some feedback. I don't think they will go down the 'phase' route that is very GWish.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 10, 2019 5:52:11 GMT
I mean, there's definite parallels, but at the end of the day there's only a few different genres of wargame: fantasy, sci-fi, and modern/historical. They've done fantasy*, and modern/historical tends to have a slightly different target demographic, so sci-fi is kind of the most obvious bet for a different setting that will appeal to their current player base - which is probably safer than trying to chase a market sector where no-one really knows you so you would have a hard time getting market penetration, and probably have a hard time standing out. How many other wargame companies have both a fantasy and a sci-fi wargame? GW obviously, and of course Fantasy Flight have a bunch of games (though those are all licensed properties so the "genre" is arguably slightly less significant that the IP). Right now any time a company does both they are going to be compared to GW just like how some games are called "GTA clones" and that sort of thing; sometimes things feel derivative at first, and to be honest they usually are, but that's fine: initially more "GTA clones" means more variations of gameplay to satisfy people with slightly different tastes in games, and ultimately it leads to more innovation and choice, right? So right now "we have a fantasy game and we're making a related sci-fi game" feels derivative of GW, but the similar development path doesn't make the game itself an actual imitation, and it doesn't mean it can't work well and provide a good product to the customer. As far as "inferior" goes: I'd rather wait and see what happens than judge the game based on some minimalistic dev talks. I much prefer the basic gameplay mechanics of Warmachine to those of 40K myself, so a sci-fi game that's closer to Warmachine sounds good to me. *I mean, I know Warmachine is kind of marketed as steampunk, but really: it's fantasy with a light veneer of steampunk. Hordes (and even Cephalyx) pretty much do away with the steampunk completely and it changes almost nothing. Hell, Warmachine even has a lot of historical (Winter Guard, Trenchers) and sci-fi (Retribution, Convergence) flavour already. But at the end of the day it's primarily a fantasy setting what with all the magic and soul stuff happening. That is like saying Infinity is just an inferior imitation of 40k. It really matters what PP does with it. Nope. They shares almost nothing. What they shares are: -The story is dominated by human race. --and there are some other sentient races. -humans are starting to earth, and it assumes it is the far future of our real world. -perhaps, some SF stuff? Such as powered armor... but that's the only connection. All we can connect both of them are something like that. It is very wrong to ever think about the idea. I don't get it what you want to say. Well, if you want to say it is ridiculous enough to compare both of them, I don't think so either. They do shares the same world, same origin, and perhaps races. The tie is more strong than the relationship between warhammer and warhammer 40k, but both of them's overall relationship are actually resemble. I don't think that there is a person to deny it. Is not it a simple truth? The point is to like it or hate it, not to deny their relations.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 10, 2019 7:00:23 GMT
Well, if you want to say it is ridiculous enough to compare both of them, I don't think so either. They do shares the same world, same origin, and perhaps races. The tie is more strong than the relationship between warhammer and warhammer 40k, but both of them's overall relationship are actually resemble. I don't think that there is a person to deny it. Is not it a simple truth? The point is to like it or hate it, not to deny their relations. Except there is currently no point to liking or hating it at all, because we know next to nothing about it?
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Post by marxlives on Jul 10, 2019 17:36:05 GMT
That is like saying Infinity is just an inferior imitation of 40k. It really matters what PP does with it. Nope. They shares almost nothing. What they shares are: -The story is dominated by human race. --and there are some other sentient races. -humans are starting to earth, and it assumes it is the far future of our real world. -perhaps, some SF stuff? Such as powered armor... but that's the only connection. All we can connect both of them are something like that. It is very wrong to ever think about the idea. I don't get it what you want to say. Well, if you want to say it is ridiculous enough to compare both of them, I don't think so either. They do shares the same world, same origin, and perhaps races. The tie is more strong than the relationship between warhammer and warhammer 40k, but both of them's overall relationship are actually resemble. I don't think that there is a person to deny it. Is not it a simple truth? The point is to like it or hate it, not to deny their relations. What??? The only thing I got out of this was that different stories within the genre are....different, which was the whole point. Like I said in a previous post. There really isn't anything that parallels 40k on the market anymore, even Mantic's system is different and the lore is more Dead Space. Comparing 40k to Warcaster is like saying WHFB and WMH are the same game with the same setting, mechanics, and same lore. Warcaster scale wise is something between WMH and Infinity (50pt battles being the largest scale it seems) and lore wise it starts on Immoren, has few alien races (due to humans abandoning their old world), and is something more between Infinity meets Neuromancer lore wise (Infinity has hackers, aliens, and big robots too). Mechanics wise it will follow more WMH than 40k and even double down on the WMH system since everything is post human now, warcasters can affect people too. The only thing that is similar is customization but do we really need to put a list on this post of how many games (Infinity included) allow customization? 40k is more Gibbon's "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" in space with some some Geoffrey of Monmouth and Chrétien de Troyes thrown in for some good measure lore wise, not Neuromancer in space. Even mechanically it has more in common with historical games from Warlord and draws a lot more from historicals into its DNA than WMH based systems. PP WMH system is D20 meets chess and so will Warcaster.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 10, 2019 17:40:00 GMT
I didn't care for the game system. I never did. Please get the point.
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Post by anderfreak on Jul 11, 2019 1:10:06 GMT
I didn't care for the game system. I never did. Please get the point. Your opinion is based on a 10 second teaser. Your drama is stupid. Is that to the point enough?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 11, 2019 4:56:42 GMT
Enough, of course. It is enough to give us the basic concept of the world, and that's the problem actually.
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Post by Charistoph on Jul 11, 2019 7:04:57 GMT
How much of the actually interesting aspects of Western Immoren can be presented in 10 seconds? Now, expand that across many worlds all carrying numerous continents.
Now, consider that they haven't mentioned ANY of the mechanical differences between WMH and WC:NM 5K aside from customizing some models, it is very difficult to make a determination of how good or bad this new game will be.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 11, 2019 8:48:52 GMT
Why I need to care for the mechanism and system when the problem is only fluff and marketing? I don't get it. No one in here are ever argue about the game's mechanism or anything related to it.
Actually we don't have anything to argue if you just want to say about the mechanism and for this part all we can is guess about how it does.
Why there are so many red herrings out there? No one need to defend the idea what the person is not want to say or believe, but you guys are keep ask me to do that. Just why?
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Post by marxlives on Jul 11, 2019 15:12:51 GMT
Enough, of course. It is enough to give us the basic concept of the world, and that's the problem actually. Not a big fan of Neuromancer?
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Post by marxlives on Jul 11, 2019 15:15:46 GMT
Why I need to care for the mechanism and system when the problem is only fluff and marketing? I don't get it. No one in here are ever argue about the game's mechanism or anything related to it. Actually we don't have anything to argue if you just want to say about the mechanism and for this part all we can is guess about how it does. Why there are so many red herrings out there? No one need to defend the idea what the person is not want to say or believe, but you guys are keep ask me to do that. Just why? Your right, Neuromancer in space is exactly like "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" in space. You say "I am not a big fan of Neuromancer in space" but trying say one is like the other lore wise is.....alot of things that are not positive.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 11, 2019 16:05:57 GMT
Some people just like to complain and some of them don't need any information to do so.
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