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Post by sand20go on Jun 26, 2019 16:16:10 GMT
This will definitely a big buff to jack marshals which are bound to infantry themes like the MoW Kovnik, Hitch and the Dawnguard Scyir as they metal companions won't eat free solos in their respective themes anymore. It might also buff merc units in non-merc factions as well, depending how it's worded. Nyss Hunters and Devil Doggos for instance won't eat free solos anymore. However it will be a nerf for themes that give you more than 3 free options like Talion or Sons of the Tempest, unless they do some juggeling with the wording. :/ I'm excited to see how they will go about it. It would be ideal _IF_ we could get a better drive on the Kovnik. The problem is that at RAT 4 (or 3! with a Rager) you are very unlikely to hit something. You could argue that Drive is "house money" and where the real value comes is from Crush.
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Post by marxlives on Jun 27, 2019 4:39:38 GMT
I honestly don't get what they want to point at with the Cyriss icon at the end... The cyriss icon was a nice segway to warmachine 5 k where Chris's apparently helped everyone escape the planet using the laylines when the internals invaded. That is one part but that is one part of it. I think in the immediate future what happens is Cyriss gives humans access to magic. Right now the cycle for humans is jank. It only exists because the elven gods are not all dead yet and the world has not been over run by the soulless. Once that runs out, even if they "beat" the infernals they may still be tempted to make a deal to get magic. Cyriss is the reason why humans get techno abilities that appear like magic, but ultimately it will drain the planet's ley lines and they will be forced to leave to colonize new worlds. But this scenario is far into the future. In the end it will really jump the escalation between a lot of other factions, especially Circle and Trollbloods.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 27, 2019 15:00:17 GMT
This will definitely a big buff to jack marshals which are bound to infantry themes like the MoW Kovnik, Hitch and the Dawnguard Scyir as they metal companions won't eat free solos in their respective themes anymore. It might also buff merc units in non-merc factions as well, depending how it's worded. Nyss Hunters and Devil Doggos for instance won't eat free solos anymore. However it will be a nerf for themes that give you more than 3 free options like Talion or Sons of the Tempest, unless they do some juggeling with the wording. :/ I'm excited to see how they will go about it. Sons of Tempest will not be nerfed by the change, since noone really played it with more than 3 free options. The low points per free models in SoT was useful to not be forced to make an inefficent list with too many gun mages. If now you would be able to make the list like you want, but still get 3 freebies, SoT will be the same if not even better. As an example, I don't see why Sloan or Caine3 shouldn't now play always in SoT, since now they can bring a full jack list, but still have access to great Gun Mage solos like GMCA and Falk.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Jun 28, 2019 6:38:04 GMT
It seems that call of the wild (circle living beast theme) and the wild hunt (the Wolf sworn theme) will be merged. This could be an option for PP when the amou t of War beast/Jack in the list is irrelevant. For Cygnar is would feel weird, as well as for khador. They will have to think about something to keep the B/J Themes viable around the board.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jun 28, 2019 6:50:04 GMT
I'm curious what will happen to Ravens Of War for Legion.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 28, 2019 8:11:58 GMT
It seems that call of the wild (circle living beast theme) and the wild hunt (the Wolf sworn theme) will be merged. This could be an option for PP when the amou t of War beast/Jack in the list is irrelevant. For Cygnar is would feel weird, as well as for khador. They will have to think about something to keep the B/J Themes viable around the board. I'm not sure Khador will end up with a 'Jack theme at the end of this; the only theme in Khador with a direct benefit to jacks is Winter Guard Kommand, and there's a rumour that themes will be losing all the Advance Move, +DZ and + Starting Roll benefits. That would leave Khador with no themes with jack benefits. Our actual Jack theme might as well have no benefits at all, given how niche they are. At the same time, all bar one of our themes can take jack support. So in a way we could have 4 jack themes. But I'm pretty sure Jaws isn't going anywhere; on Facebook Jeff Olsen talked about it a bit with regard to the changes, and it didn't sound like it was being merged. Can't say for sure, though
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 28, 2019 8:16:06 GMT
and there's a rumour that themes will be losing all the Advance Move, +DZ and + Starting Roll benefits. Jason Soles confirmed on facebook that at least Hammer Strike is keeping the +2" deployment, so even if some themes are changed, this is not a general rule.
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Post by jagius021 on Jun 28, 2019 12:13:48 GMT
I can't imagine that they haven't considered at least most, if not all, of the consequences of this change. Pp is really good at looking at the visual and thematics if army comp and knows a lot of the player base like the idea of Jack and beast heavy lists. They will probably keep these themes and just find a way of making them attractive to field.
If it does go the way of Requisition Points the big difference could simply be what they allow: more Jack's and beasts. Skornes beast theme already does that by giving you free krea and agonizers. The possibility expands as the Req points could be like "you can spend 1 point on a small based solo, 2 on a light (or for khador, heavy) jack that costs 8 or less, or 3 points for a heavy that costs 12 points or less. This free jack idea could be exclusive to the designated jack themes. They could also provide extra bonuses to the jack support. Like pain givers gain tough. Mechanics gain repo (many already get this theme benefit) or iron sentinel, etc.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 28, 2019 15:00:53 GMT
and there's a rumour that themes will be losing all the Advance Move, +DZ and + Starting Roll benefits. Jason Soles confirmed on facebook that at least Hammer Strike is keeping the +2" deployment, so even if some themes are changed, this is not a general rule. Do you happen to have a link of the discussion with Soles?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 28, 2019 21:20:21 GMT
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 4, 2019 6:39:24 GMT
Right, since this thread exists, we might as well use it to compile all the new Insiders and Dev Talks about the new theme forces/rules updates. Jeff Olson talks about how the new theme structure will work and spoils the new Bump in the Night.
Theme benefits retain Rise for warrior models and changes the second benefit to rerolling the starting roll. Dev Chat with Hungerford and Oz talking about some changes and spoiling Storm Division and Jaws of the WolfIf you want to see the actual themes, you'll have to find them in the video; they're on screen pretty long, so should be easy. Notably, the anti-ambush is gone, but Jaws includes Behemoth and Black Ivan, gives Warjacks Pathfinder and you get a forest AoE before deployment. Storm Division includes Blockhouse, Thunderhead and Dynamo, still has the lightning immunity and gives Unyielding to Storm Knights. Other notes I took: - There will be updates/balance changes to many factions and themes, mostly for stuff that hasn't been through CID, but sometimes also a couple of models that have. The earlier the CID was, the more chance that it will get additional buffs. They said they don't want to touch too much of the latest CIDs, as to not invalidate people's purchases.
- Most nerfs, or "anti-buffs" as Hungerford diplomatically called them, will be unsurprising to the community. Lord of the Feast was strongly hinted at, possibly losing 2" melee for one.
- Thornfall Alliance and Hammer Strike were mentioned specifically as having some buffs in the pipeline.
- Storm Division will see a variety of buffs, both point discounts as power increases. They mentioned no model in the theme will get an "anti-buff".
- Cygnar colossals are getting discounted: Stormwall will be 36 points, Hurricane 35. They are getting no other changes as the devs like what they do.
- They had a look at the max benefit of free models that themes have access too. Most will fall into the 16-18 range, though some will (still) be in the 20-21 range. Oz mentioned that the latter category will most likely have slightly weaker benefits to compensate.
- Most (no) Ambush, advanced move, extra deployment, and similar benefits have been removed. Mostly so they would have an easier time balancing the "attacking into deployment top of 1" interactions.
- Kossites go to 6/10, no other changes.
- Assault Kommandos go to 9/15, no other changes.
- They intend to slow down CID a bit, because they have enough releases for a while, but there will definitely be more CIDs. They intend to do broader balance updates approximately twice a year, not necessarily via CID.
- At the end they talked a bit about Convergence and how they will play a large role in the battle against the Infernals, because they can "save" souls by putting them in mechanical vessels. They were pretty much confirmed to be getting new stuff somewhere down the line.
Note that they only talked about these specific things. There will be (plenty) more Dev Talks and Insiders before the actual (pre-)release of Oblivion, so if your faction wasn't mentioned, it definitely will in a future installment.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 4, 2019 8:26:12 GMT
They also strongly implied that the LotF would be losing range on the bird.
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Post by feketelovag on Jul 4, 2019 23:26:42 GMT
- They had a look at the max benefit of free models that themes have access too. Most will fall into the 16-18 range, though some will (still) be in the 20-21 range. Oz mentioned that the latter category will most likely have slightly weaker benefits to compensate.
- Most (no) Ambush, advanced move, extra deployment, and similar benefits have been removed. Mostly so they would have an easier time balancing the "attacking into deployment top of 1" interactions.
Unless of course you play Destruction Initiative and will have max 12 points for free (unless you take a batch of arc nodes and push it up to 14 points just for lol). Then they take the +2" deploy away from a universally slow faction because it would be too hard to remove the one or two bad interactions that allow top of turn 1 attacks. Guess its my fault though for getting my hopes up when I heard about the theme changes even though I would be losing out on free options with DI. Should have known better :S. But leaving +2" deploy for the Hammer Strike theme is just FINE. FFS, why make the one exception and ax all the others??? Just why? Same thing with not getting something else instead of the +2" deploy... why?? The +1 starting roll got changed to a re-roll? Why not just ax that completely like the +2" deploy? Being able to go first with some lists is HUGE, lets buff that... ugh. Themes were totally not balanced compared to each other and these latest changes seem to just reinforce this. Will need to see how this pans out but seeing as one of the TWO themes that is available to my faction just got some pretty heavy nerfs (the other is hardly played) Ive lost that re-found hope I had in the Oblivion rework.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 5, 2019 6:44:22 GMT
feketelovag Take it easy, it's bad for your heart +1 to starting roll or rerolling it, gives a same approximate chance to win the roll. I assume you're referring to the leaked screen shot of the new Destruction Initiative theme. I would like to note there that you might not have all the data; maybe there have been buffs to the models in question. Also, I'm not sure how else you would like to divide the requisition options. The only thing that would make sense is to give you 2 batches of either the mechanics or servitors, but then you would immediately sky rocket to 24 free points. It's not all about how many free points you can get; it doesn't matter how much it costs, as long as it does what it should. I would also like to note that there are typos in the text ("Mecenary") and that there may be another benefit that has been cut off. They also mentioned that new stuff is coming for Convergence, which might also unlock this theme down the line. My mantra is always "Keep your expectations low and never get disappointed.", especially when you don't have complete data For those that have no idea what's going on: Chain Attack spoiled the new Destruction Initiative theme. Army composition includes "1 Mecenary unit *" (their typo, not mine) and "1 Mercenary solo", with no explanation for the asterisk, it then again lists the standard blurb for including Mercenaries. It can take 1 Optifex Directive, 3 Algorithmic Dispersion Optifexes, or 3 (same) Servitors for free. Special Rules are Shield Guard for Servitors and Shield Guard lost the "non-spray" caveat. But, as said, I would take it with a grain of salt. EDIT: Jeff said on Facebook that he would check out the wording on Shield Guard. Jay confirmed that Shield Guard is the only bonus for the theme.
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Post by feketelovag on Jul 5, 2019 7:04:47 GMT
Im actually not really ticked off by the changes to the requisition options since I knew from the beginning that my faction would lose out on the changes but honestly I was fine with that for the health of the game. I really could live with that small loss. However, what Im really not fine with is getting hit on the requisition, getting hit on losing a theme bonus, getting hit with the shield guard change since that also totally kills the TEPs. All the while other themes either keep their buffs (looking at you Hammer Strike) or get a modified version. These multiple nerfs while others either keep their bonuses or get buffed basically just totally destroys what Ive played and its not like CoC has been dominating the metas, yet apparently it was so bad that it deserved 3 rounds of nerfs, 1 of which was a big nerf to its scenario play and the other was a huge nerf to its key model (TEP). Sorry but I cant but feel a bit outraged. Sure, I dont know the whole picture and there might be buffs incoming as well (after this they have to be pretty massive) but with the current info that I have CoC is going onto the shelves.
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