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Post by sand20go on Jun 16, 2019 5:44:29 GMT
Well not entirely but played in to Double TEPS against Axis with AC under strakov 2. So our best pound for bound delivery dude. And it STILL wasn't enough given the value he can get out of the sprays. And in some ways this is the challenge with CG as well with Double Railless.
Maybe JUST positioning but I just for the life of me don't see how people that win (aka folks like Loud Chris) find a list that can play into Fast lists with tons of high value sprays as it just is NOT what Khador is very good at.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 16, 2019 8:37:24 GMT
What was the list here? I thought your current plans were Butcher1 AC and Strakhov2 Winter Guard?
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Post by chickenslayer on Jun 16, 2019 11:30:18 GMT
Here, in brief, is how you deal with this problem  Also the TEP is a terrible test for this Strakhov 2 strategy which presumably involves some degree of tanking w/Face because it's literally designed from the ground up to do arbitrarily high damage to shit it is allowed to Spray. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 16, 2019 13:23:42 GMT
What you need is to get the alpha. Take Vlad 3 with all the horses. What could possibly go wrong?
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Post by sand20go on Jun 16, 2019 17:31:46 GMT
Here, in brief, is how you deal with this problem Also the TEP is a terrible test for this Strakhov 2 strategy which presumably involves some degree of tanking w/Face because it's literally designed from the ground up to do arbitrarily high damage to shit it is allowed to Spray. LOL. I have got to watch a video of how you position Vlad and then the dudes with the pieplates of nope. I have not been able to really figure out the right placement of everything to maximize protection. |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 17, 2019 10:06:00 GMT
Similar, i always try to use wind blast. Maybe im bad at placing them, or maybe the intent is just to make it harder for your opponent, but my opponent seems to always get around it.
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Post by auraco on Jun 17, 2019 10:55:06 GMT
Similar, i always try to use wind blast. Maybe im bad at placing them, or maybe the intent is just to make it harder for your opponent, but my opponent seems to always get around it. My experiences with the wind blast is that they very rarely shoot down shooting, what they do is control where the shot will be comming from, it's incredibly good for scenario play. Something like: Well if you want to shoot me with your BE you won't be able have it in that zone, it can prevent scoring and can make it hard for models to contest while still shooting. |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 17, 2019 13:05:47 GMT
Similar, i always try to use wind blast. Maybe im bad at placing them, or maybe the intent is just to make it harder for your opponent, but my opponent seems to always get around it. My experiences with the wind blast is that they very rarely shoot down shooting, what they do is control where the shot will be comming from, it's incredibly good for scenario play. Something like: Well if you want to shoot me with your BE you won't be able have it in that zone, it can prevent scoring and can make it hard for models to contest while still shooting. But at least the opponents _I_ play would never really use a high value BE to contest (or at least early). That is what Trancers, Halbies (or SeaDogs) or handfuls of servitors are for. That is why I wanted to see a ChickenSlayer video or 3 because I KNOW it can be done. Maybe just some time on a table laying things out solo to figure out the geometry of how to ideally put down 2 (or even 3). And it isn't so much of where the BLASTS go but rather how that relates to Vlad2 himself AND the doomies so they can be generally protected. (Sidenote to self- Interesting, even with some worst case scenarios (Vlad gets blinded by the first S. Abyss; The DBR drifts and catches vlad, Slyvestro is able to get the Railless to shoot big gun without superfueling and thus can cast 3 Abysses) the assassination feat run on a Vlad2 who cast THREE windblasts and camping one it is just a 48% chance. If you tighten conditions, for example, requiring sylvestro to boost the first attack roll to increase chances of hitting and getting the critical blind or that the DBR doesn't clip vlad the odds drop WELL below 20%.) |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 17, 2019 13:20:14 GMT
What was the list here? I thought your current plans were Butcher1 AC and Strakhov2 Winter Guard? Right now for competitive play I am in love with Vlad2 in Wolves with 4 units of doomies, full ponies, a unit of eliminators and victor. I MAY switch things up and play around with a different jack load out just to see if I like having some additional support (for example getting a unit of Ternions in so I have some RFP and recursion in the list). But that list has been basically crushing my meta's mid and low end and playing competitive with the top. What I wanted was an off list that would complement it when playing into high value shooting. So things like Cruciable Guard, Retribution with double lawnmowers. As LoudChris notes below if I can get down the Windblast placement the above is not HORRIBLY difficult to deal with even if faced with a Moros run. So perhaps just getting better with THAT. Alternatively, I THINK that OW2 now with S0 and Andy0 in Jaws works well as a completment....just will take some table time. The aforementioned ideas (S2 WG, B1AC) are more for fun. |
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932 
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Post by Ganso on Jun 17, 2019 17:51:32 GMT
Similar, i always try to use wind blast. Maybe im bad at placing them, or maybe the intent is just to make it harder for your opponent, but my opponent seems to always get around it. They'll get around it, but I think the trick is making them get around it in a way of Your choosing. Zone them into bad positions if they actually want to shoot. |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 17, 2019 19:54:50 GMT
Similar, i always try to use wind blast. Maybe im bad at placing them, or maybe the intent is just to make it harder for your opponent, but my opponent seems to always get around it. They'll get around it, but I think the trick is making them get around it in a way of Your choosing. Zone them into bad positions if they actually want to shoot. +1. That is why I really need to SEE it in action - how to successfully force them into a bad spot. And maybe that is the mentality I should be thinking about (so in the aforementioned Vlad2 list with doomies - force him if he wants to kill doomes that the TEP/Railess would need to be within 11 inches of a Victor.
Maybe even solitaire it out - so that I can better understand that top of 2/bottom of 1 positioning to create poor choices. Figuring out, however, that Vlad2 can live even if forward and getting lots of shots to the face is important info. I think I am "too scared" by your loss when Juris shot Butcher 3 off the table.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 18, 2019 8:59:43 GMT
What I wanted was an off list that would complement it when playing into high value shooting. So things like Cruciable Guard, Retribution with double lawnmowers. As LoudChris notes below if I can get down the Windblast placement the above is not HORRIBLY difficult to deal with even if faced with a Moros run. So perhaps just getting better with THAT. Alternatively, I THINK that OW2 now with S0 and Andy0 in Jaws works well as a completment....just will take some table time. Is that based on the Rob McCormick list with all the Marshalled jacks? I really like that list; it seems very elegant. (Well, apart from the Spriggan, of which I just generally disapprove.) I don't know if it actually needs Sorscha0, though; my gut instinct would be that the OW can just do it better on feat turn. The double Forge Seers go well on the Behemoth, Malakov is great for the double threat range extension, but it just feels like Sorscha0 would be a BC source on a caster who is a much better BC source... This is the list from the 2018 WTC: Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Juggernaut [13] - Kodiak [13] - Spriggan [17] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Rager [10] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Behemoth [25] Kovnik Andrei Malakov [0(4)] - Marauder [11] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] |
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Post by borderprince on Jun 18, 2019 9:34:21 GMT
Is that based on the Rob McCormick list with all the Marshalled jacks? I really like that list; it seems very elegant. (Well, apart from the Spriggan, of which I just generally disapprove.) I think the list is pre-Adjunct, so the Spriggan was rather important for letting Behemoth hit a wider range of targets. Might be possible to change it now to something like Juggernaut + Adjunct, although you will lose 1" of melee threat, which might be important. |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 18, 2019 9:51:55 GMT
Is that based on the Rob McCormick list with all the Marshalled jacks? I really like that list; it seems very elegant. (Well, apart from the Spriggan, of which I just generally disapprove.) I think the list is pre-Adjunct, so the Spriggan was rather important for letting Behemoth hit a wider range of targets. Might be possible to change it now to something like Juggernaut + Adjunct, although you will lose 1" of melee threat, which might be important. It's certainly pre-Adjunct, yes. I think the Adjunct is just all kinds of useful in this list: Single high-power targets are better for guidance, and the range extenders stack. 1" of threat is certainly something, but losing 1 MAT and P+S means that the Juggernaut deals 20%+ extra average damage compared to the Spriggan against most targets. There's plenty of options, though; as long as the jack costs at least 13 points you can get the third free slot, and you could also drop the mechanics (although you'd lose a scoring unit in the process) It was actually one that I though might be able to run a couple of Marshaled Berserkers; Crush, focus, boundless and CoS is a lot of power for very few points. Of course, any other jack also benefits from all of those things! |
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nackers
Baby's First Wargame
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Post by nackers on Jun 18, 2019 13:17:50 GMT
As the local CoC player Slayer defeats regularly yeah Vlad 2 is a hell of an answer for teps.
Axis's feat should give CoC one turn of shooting without melee retaliation though 3-4 doomies with good placement and feat can kill a tep.
However in my meta CoC isn't the biggest threat out there so your just going to have to deal with CoCs best list while also living with PoM, than and skorne.
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