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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 13, 2019 13:55:34 GMT
I can see the utility. But, I keep taking him less and less when I build Rider lists. He's really more of an attachment than a dragoon, in my opinion. But it looks like PP did that price cost more or less for all dragoons. Which i haven't seen one in forever outside the Pain Knight, but he's free points so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyways, do you auto-include him? Not include him? Or have to have a real plan to justify him?
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Post by Trollock on Jun 13, 2019 20:47:06 GMT
Id say he is playable at best. You can play a min unit and Horthol or a max unit for the same price. you get more activations, a guy who can score a flag, and sort of similar output (as Horthol hits harder than a normal dude, and makes their impacts better), but if you were going to put an upkeep on the unit, you get less value from it. He can do nasty things with Madrak 2 feat for example though. MAT 10 POW 16(?) weaponmaster with 2" reach and a chance to restart the the surf if you manage to get the mount in there. He ignores tough too if you play BoH and place all the buffs on him. SUUUPER dumb  |
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274 
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Post by jarrow on Jun 14, 2019 5:50:09 GMT
I think he is on hard place after changes to BoH free point ruling. Unless you want only minimal battlegroup (mauler+edbt) Horthlol most likely will cost 13p that is way too much for what he does. But if your points go so that he cost only 8p, he might be worht as he is our toughest solo and buffs tuffalos nicely.
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Post by Trollock on Jun 14, 2019 6:49:30 GMT
I think he is on hard place after changes to BoH free point ruling. Unless you want only minimal battlegroup (mauler+edbt) Horthlol most likely will cost 13p that is way too much for what he does. But if your points go so that he cost only 8p, he might be worht as he is our toughest solo and buffs tuffalos nicely. Yeah, that is a good point too. Never ever drop a free solo for him. Thats just insanity. But mauler/bomber, mauler/EBDT and 3 lights are all Battle groups that work fine in BoH imo, and they can be combined with Horthol. You probably dont bring a mist speaker in those lists either. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jun 14, 2019 20:48:42 GMT
In Storm he makes great bait for a target for bears. He is Hardy enough that not much short of a jack will take him down, even outside the stone, so I usually run him on a wide flank where he stays deep in the bears threat range until a juicy opening comes up.
That's mostly theory machine, though, as I have also often struggles to justify including him. He seems insane to include in a list as a flag sitter, but there aren't many better in the game, especially since he could, say, Bull Rush through the flag then reposition back into the flag. I might have to try that...
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Jun 15, 2019 13:42:17 GMT
Not worth 8 'paid' points imo.
He doesn't provide anything particularly special/tricky or surprising for my army.
Durability seems decent as a flag dominator, but ARM busting doesn't seem in short supply in opposing armies.
I rarely include him, usually with a min unit of LRs, for an alternate threat ANGLE.
Give him Righteous Vengeance and he might become the slam bot he was born to be...
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Jun 15, 2019 16:44:32 GMT
I'm confused. People keep mentioning free points. Horthol can't be taken as free points as far as I know. HORGLE can.
I would love to know I'm missing something.
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Post by emb on Jun 15, 2019 18:23:27 GMT
I'm confused. People keep mentioning free points. Horthol can't be taken as free points as far as I know. HORGLE can. I would love to know I'm missing something. Horthol doesn't count for points towards a solo and is expensive enough that including him often means giving up a free solo, effectively making him 13 points. And to answer the OP: I have him in my eMadrak double LR list for the reasons Trollock stated. That's about it. |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 17, 2019 19:37:00 GMT
That Madrak2 interaction is awfully nice. Went ahead and ordered him specifically for that in my Madrak2 "Do you find me offensive"
list. 'Preciate the feedback.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Jun 20, 2019 6:23:44 GMT
That Madrak2 interaction is awfully nice. Went ahead and ordered him specifically for that in my Madrak2 "Do you find me offensive" list. 'Preciate the feedback. Alas, loved the model in MK2, now the definition of a niche model. Where's my TB's Lord of the Yeast?!! (a brewmaster, Dual-attacking 7pt solo that can belch-propel himself across the board and belly bump all models within 2"/LOS, then buy/boost attacks based on how many beer tokens he's imbibed...Sounds ludicrous, right?  ) |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 20, 2019 9:01:36 GMT
That Madrak2 interaction is awfully nice. Went ahead and ordered him specifically for that in my Madrak2 "Do you find me offensive" list. 'Preciate the feedback. Alas, loved the model in MK2, now the definition of a niche model. Where's my TB's Lord of the Yeast?!! (a brewmaster, Dual-attacking 7pt solo that can belch-propel himself across the board and belly bump all models within 2"/LOS, then buy/boost attacks based on how many beer tokens he's imbibed...Sounds ludicrous, right? ) Last game i played (with Grayle) was like: "oh, you left a model that is within 19" of my 16/21 (with cover and stealth and storm rager) model and that model is within 3.2" of your Vlad 2 who is camping 5? You are SOOO dead! The math is not even hard. Vlad just super dies. *salt pored in wounds*  |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 20, 2019 11:17:27 GMT
Last game i played (with Grayle) was like: "oh, you left a model that is within 19" of my 16/21 (with cover and stealth and storm rager) model and that model is within 3.2" of your Vlad 2 who is camping 5? You are SOOO dead! The math is not even hard. Vlad just super dies. *salt pored in wounds* i love MKiii Grayle stories just because i wrecked so many people in mkii with him when he was "bad". My mkii Grayle record was 11-0 against Haley2. It's something of a point of pride for me.  That said, Horthol got here, and he'll be built up next. He's being a bit finicky about fitting in to SotN or BoH as far as points, but I've made him work. Gives the unit of riders a bit more utility too, so that's a nice little plus. I've squoze Eilish into one of the lists so giving him a reroll on feat turn is a possiblity if needed to keep him rolling through. Still think he should be 7 points though . |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 21, 2019 14:06:57 GMT
Okay, I'm at a critical juncture in my painting here. I'm going to have one list fully painted for IronArena games at GenCon, I'm going with Madrak2 with Riders and Horthol. Battlegroup is set. Do I go double Fenns in BoH, or second Riders in SotN? eidt. I'm thinking Band for the utility of RFP being more widely applicable than SotN bonuses, but I really don't want to paint all that infantry. |
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Post by onijet01 on Jun 21, 2019 16:33:05 GMT
Would dragoons be better if you could buy any version of them?
Example 8 mount and dismount or 4to5 points for just dismounted version?
Not just about our troll just a generic thing in general
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 21, 2019 19:35:42 GMT
I've never thought so. The mount and abilities are really what make or break them generally. Otherwise they are just combat solos, and honestly, worse than basically any other option for that IMO. Can take Valka, or a dismounted Horthol for instance. Well, I haven't suffered any traumatic brain injuries, so I'll be taking Valka.
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