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Post by vakruz on Jun 18, 2019 19:14:31 GMT
I had taken quite the break from this game. Get back onto these forums and see this thread, and all I can say is i wish there were more people like you guys where i play. The constant hardcore 75 pt steamroller lists are what destroyed my playgroup. We did try to get something like this going locally, but it didnt catch because the rest of the community said it was a waste of time to do anything less which really sucks. Oddly enough : the game isnt only playable at 75 points. Wish more people realized how fun it actually is in the 25 point range.
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Post by elladan52 on Jun 18, 2019 19:30:15 GMT
I had taken quite the break from this game. Get back onto these forums and see this thread, and all I can say is i wish there were more people like you guys where i play. The constant hardcore 75 pt steamroller lists are what destroyed my playgroup. We did try to get something like this going locally, but it didnt catch because the rest of the community said it was a waste of time to do anything less which really sucks. Oddly enough : the game isnt only playable at 75 points. Wish more people realized how fun it actually is in the 25 point range. Where do you play?
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jun 19, 2019 6:53:30 GMT
I think it wouldn't even be that much of a deal if some casters units and combos are bad in low point games. The main problem is overpowered. If you lack a few option because they are bad, that is sad but not game breaking. Also: casters with more battle group points profit much more in small games. This might actually help them a lot! It's not so much playing under par I consider the issue, but playing without part of your casters toolset. It's one of the things I dislike so much about the childeren theme for legion. So much precision strike and exactely nada anti healing in theme to make it stick. Regardless if power, it's just not fun not to be able to use stuff.
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Post by netdragon on Jun 20, 2019 7:35:25 GMT
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 20, 2019 8:38:30 GMT
That's a clever move on their part. Warmahordes can't realistically manage huge battles as efficiently since you need to roll more than one dice; you can't just go '40 guys attack, I roll 40 dice'. But the scaling concept is still good.
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Post by netdragon on Jun 20, 2019 10:36:41 GMT
That's a clever move on their part. Warmahordes can't realistically manage huge battles as efficiently since you need to roll more than one dice; you can't just go '40 guys attack, I roll 40 dice'. But the scaling concept is still good. IMHO, that's what happenend already. WM/H wasn't designed for the 90-100 pts game that's now with the theme's free points.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 20, 2019 12:29:31 GMT
I’ve been playing almost exclusively lower points games lately because I’ve been trying to get a friend into Warmachine.
Hot take: 35 points is funner than 75 points.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 20, 2019 15:20:00 GMT
I think it wouldn't even be that much of a deal if some casters units and combos are bad in low point games. The main problem is overpowered. If you lack a few option because they are bad, that is sad but not game breaking. Also: casters with more battle group points profit much more in small games. This might actually help them a lot! Agreed... since WMH doesn’t offer perfect balance at 75 points, I’m not worried about perfect balance at 35 or 50. I think what we would be more worried about us models/casters who are so hard to take down at 35 points and have enough output that it really breaks the game. Also, if it is an introductory format, limiting cavalry and huge bases may be a good idea because those rules add another layer of complexity for new players. It took me like a year and a half to figure out impact attacks...
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 20, 2019 15:45:31 GMT
I think it wouldn't even be that much of a deal if some casters units and combos are bad in low point games. The main problem is overpowered. If you lack a few option because they are bad, that is sad but not game breaking. Also: casters with more battle group points profit much more in small games. This might actually help them a lot! Agreed... since WMH doesn’t offer perfect balance at 75 points, I’m not worried about perfect balance at 35 or 50. I think what we would be more worried about us models/casters who are so hard to take down at 35 points and have enough output that it really breaks the game. Also, if it is an introductory format, limiting cavalry and huge bases may be a good idea because those rules add another layer of complexity for new players. It took me like a year and a half to figure out impact attacks... I still think Cyel 's way (No themes, no huge bases, 2 symmetrical zones scored by all things, units need all models in zone to score, 4CP diff to win) genuinely sounds great for anything up to 35 points. I'd probably add in 'Incorporeal models can't contest or control' to nip that NPE in the bud, but it's super simple as it is.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 20, 2019 21:15:11 GMT
That’s actually more or less what I’ve been doing with my coworker... I feel like some of the SR scenarios don’t really make sense at low points levels, plus they can be confusing (“okay, what scores circles again?”)
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jun 20, 2019 21:39:07 GMT
That’s actually more or less what I’ve been doing with my coworker... I feel like some of the SR scenarios don’t really make sense at low points levels, plus they can be confusing (“okay, what scores circles again?”) I wonder if giving infantry an edge on scenario would help balance out the advantage battlegroup casters get in terms of free points? That only works if you play with themes, obviously, but it could be a way to make combined arms more appealing. It's not like you can really spam infantry at the 25-35 point mark (right?)
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Post by vakruz on Jun 24, 2019 16:52:14 GMT
I had taken quite the break from this game. Get back onto these forums and see this thread, and all I can say is i wish there were more people like you guys where i play. The constant hardcore 75 pt steamroller lists are what destroyed my playgroup. We did try to get something like this going locally, but it didnt catch because the rest of the community said it was a waste of time to do anything less which really sucks. Oddly enough : the game isnt only playable at 75 points. Wish more people realized how fun it actually is in the 25 point range. Where do you play? North/Southeast KY
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 24, 2019 17:05:21 GMT
That’s actually more or less what I’ve been doing with my coworker... I feel like some of the SR scenarios don’t really make sense at low points levels, plus they can be confusing (“okay, what scores circles again?”) I wonder if giving infantry an edge on scenario would help balance out the advantage battlegroup casters get in terms of free points? That only works if you play with themes, obviously, but it could be a way to make combined arms more appealing. It's not like you can really spam infantry at the 25-35 point mark (right?) Honestly, I don’t feel like infantry casters being less effective at 35 points is that big of a balance issue. I think a lot of the good ones are still pretty good at 35 points. Besides, it’s not like the game is perfectly balanced at 75 point Steamroller games. I feel like with different combinations of scenario, points level, and terrain, you generally end up creating a new and interesting meta where (aside from a few things that may be slightly broken at lower points levels) the balance isn’t necessarily significantly worse, just different. I mean, if we go from Irusk being 20% better than Harkevich to a format that favours big battle groups and now Harkevich is 20% better than Irusk, it’s no less balanced, only different.
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 24, 2019 17:37:05 GMT
What is interesting is how Requisition will affect low level games now. You gain no more benefit at 35 points than 25 points, other than the slightly more wiggle room of the obvious. Whereas now, with Themes, there can be a huge difference depending on the Theme.
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Post by elladan52 on Jun 24, 2019 17:44:22 GMT
Yes this certainly pulls things towards 25 for that free model.
On the other hand, warjack/warbeast themes no longer have the advantage of a free card at 10 pts, so it also makes those a little more even.
Very exciting change for LPGs!
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