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Post by michael on Jun 4, 2019 13:41:54 GMT
The argument that “the tournament format need to be changed in order to get my local players to play smaller games” is complete bunk.
If you want to play lower point games, then ask the players that you play against to play lower point games.
It’s up to you. Don’t pointlessly try to shift the responsibility to a company whose actions you do not control. Go do it yourself in your local shop.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 4, 2019 13:53:59 GMT
I really want to try some 25 point Rumble games now...
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jun 4, 2019 14:07:43 GMT
I've had a few goes at 15 point games, especially when we were just starting out. I don't really like them - they're a bit TOO short and brutal for my taste. A lot of the time the only thing that matters is how hard you alpha, since your front line is the only backup you have.
Haven't had a go at 25pts yet. It might be big enough to allow for quick games without being quite as one note as the smaller games.
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Post by michael on Jun 4, 2019 16:04:12 GMT
I really want to try some 25 point Rumble games now... The Rumble format...uh...needs some adjustment...in order to be viable. Non-cool opponents can really game the staggered deployment system and do stupid, unfun things. Play on a regular table, just at smaller points. That’s my experience!
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Jun 4, 2019 16:20:45 GMT
Rumble would be fun, but I never got the way that you "walk into the map". The first player pretty much enters and the second player is pretty much in range of all his stuff in turn 2. (or do I make something wrong here?)
I think if you can kind of get to about the normal distance between armies, the format is fun!
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 4, 2019 17:25:01 GMT
I really want to try some 25 point Rumble games now... The Rumble format...uh...needs some adjustment...in order to be viable. Non-cool opponents can really game the staggered deployment system and do stupid, unfun things. Play on a regular table, just at smaller points. That’s my experience! Me and my buddies had some houserules about the weird deployment stuff. AD didn't start on the board, but could move 6" on during the Rumble deploy and then move. Other stuff could only move/run/charge on, but couldn't then move (or act, if they ran/charged). That way there's actually a point to AD, and you don't have things like Wolf Riders literally block you out of the board. Playing small games on big boards isn't my cup of tea. I fondly remember Rumble because it basically skips the boring turns at the start of any full-size game.
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 4, 2019 18:49:41 GMT
Keep in mind the goal here is not to tempt anyone away from tournaments, but to validate a new style of play. No need for a replacement, just something additional. Of course, time being what it is, people will need to make a decision on game night, so I am here making the case for additional consideration. But the goal is certainly not to topple 75 or play. The argument that “the tournament format need to be changed in order to get my local players to play smaller games” is complete bunk. If you want to play lower point games, then ask the players that you play against to play lower point games.It’s up to you. Don’t pointlessly try to shift the responsibility to a company whose actions you do not control. Go do it yourself in your local shop. Keep in mind two things: 1) Without official support, many of those metas won't even look at what you're asking them to do. 2) So long as their game time during the week is completely focused on Steamroller testing and training, this won't get very far.
Interestingly enough, this is one area where the Warhammers are a bit ahead. I have found it a lot easier to get LPGs in with 40K than with WarmaHordes, barring JML events. Oh, there were still the die-hard tournament trainers the Extremerollers are part of, but there has always been more casual Warhammer players in the local meta than their were the tournament nuts.
Someone a while back considered setting up a Vanguard format specifically targeting smaller games. And honestly, I think it would go farther in getting the Steamroller-focused meta away if local TOs ran them, and ran them often. Consider how quick a 25-30 point game is, and it could be possible to run a short tournament with it in a single night as opposed to the full Steamroller press which requires a fully day, minimum. To keep it balanced, maybe running them with their own ADR focused on Battlegroup Commanders who operate at the lower levels, like most of the Battleboxes come with, would be appropriate so you're not facing things akin Haley or the Butcher in those events.
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corvius
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by corvius on Jun 4, 2019 19:07:46 GMT
Here is what I would like them to have as official tournaments, all played using current Steamroller scenarios:
25pt - No Themes + Optional Vanguard
50pt - Normal Steamroller + Optional Vanguard
75pt - Normal Steamroller
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Post by michael on Jun 4, 2019 19:22:03 GMT
Keep in mind the goal here is not to tempt anyone away from tournaments, but to validate a new style of play. No need for a replacement, just something additional. Of course, time being what it is, people will need to make a decision on game night, so I am here making the case for additional consideration. But the goal is certainly not to topple 75 or play. The argument that “the tournament format need to be changed in order to get my local players to play smaller games” is complete bunk. If you want to play lower point games, then ask the players that you play against to play lower point games.It’s up to you. Don’t pointlessly try to shift the responsibility to a company whose actions you do not control. Go do it yourself in your local shop. Keep in mind two things: 1) Without official support, many of those metas won't even look at what you're asking them to do. 2) So long as their game time during the week is completely focused on Steamroller testing and training, this won't get very far.
...
That is not something Privateer can control. The choice of point size and whether or not a players spend their game time practicing Steamroller 24/7 is completely up to the players.You, as (presumably!) one of your local players, have a hand in shaping that choice! C’mon folks! This is not that difficult!
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jun 4, 2019 19:42:20 GMT
What's vanguard? Different type of format or deployment?
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 4, 2019 20:33:08 GMT
What's vanguard? Different type of format or deployment? It was a format that was being tested by PPS_Jeff and LoS Jaden. The bullet points were: 25 points 5-6 pieces of terrain 4 scenarios, all super central ALA mark 2 destruction No huge based non-casters Incorporeal models cannot contest or control things Zones and flags controllable by basically everything Win by 3, not by 5 No Feats or Arcana FA 1 (except WAs) Themes don't give you deployment bonuses (no Ambush, Advanced Move, +2 deploy, +1 to go first) Deploy off the clock, 35 minute deathclock (for tournaments only) And then a list of banned casters. I liked the basic idea, although not keen on 'no feats', and I was extremely surprised that they were referring to it as a competitive format. But that was several months ago now, and I've not heard anything since
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 5, 2019 1:53:26 GMT
Keep in mind two things: 1) Without official support, many of those metas won't even look at what you're asking them to do. 2) So long as their game time during the week is completely focused on Steamroller testing and training, this won't get very far.
...
That is not something Privateer can control. The choice of point size and whether or not a players spend their game time practicing Steamroller 24/7 is completely up to the players.You, as (presumably!) one of your local players, have a hand in shaping that choice! C’mon folks! This is not that difficult!
1) Privateer Press CAN control the first. They are the ones who are classified as "official" in the "official support", after all.
2) I was actually saying that in the very second point, except, I cannot shape it if no one else in the meta is willing to help out in that. The local TOs MIGHT be able to do it, but if they aren't on board, this won't get far, at least in my meta. Even then, if no one bothers to show up for them, then it will be stillborn.
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Post by elladan52 on Jun 5, 2019 1:56:37 GMT
I honestly think list restrictions are overblown.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jun 5, 2019 2:02:27 GMT
but...but...muh steamroller!!!!!!!!
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Post by michael on Jun 5, 2019 3:20:11 GMT
1) Privateer Press CAN control the first. They are the ones who are classified as "official" in the "official support", after all.
2) I was actually saying that in the very second point, except, I cannot shape it if no one else in the meta is willing to help out in that. The local TOs MIGHT be able to do it, but if they aren't on board, this won't get far, at least in my meta. Even then, if no one bothers to show up for them, then it will be stillborn.
I really must disagree with you. Privateer could say the standard size game is any arbitrary number, but no one is beholden to it. It really is up to the players involved!
As for point #2: uh...just shape it? Say "Hey, I want to play 50 points instead" and do it...? It is not that hard. You have the power to control this. I promise. If the people you play with insist on all-Steamroller-all-the-time, then... That's still not Privateer's doing?
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