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Post by sand20go on Jun 12, 2019 15:39:11 GMT
Sorry, but you don't need "experience" to pick up the mantle, or nobody every would because nobody would have experience. I can understand the time argument; it is perfectly reasonable to make the choice to spend more of it on your family than on a hobby. However, if nobody has time, then indeed nobody will grow the community. If you are worried about the experience, well no one has experience. I think there is this weird community expectation that is an unfortunate hold over from the Press Ganger days when people expected EOs to be part time employees of PP (which is probably why PP dropped the program) rather than volunteers. You don't see this issue with 40k and it is completely volunteer. There are not even any official world tournaments sponsored by GW. EOs are just people who are using social media and social skills to coordinate meet up times. +1. THAT should not be the barrier. Experience is worthwhile (because you can help with the rules) but this game is complicated. I have often compared it to Talmudic commentary (if you don't know about that read up on it and chuckle about WM/H - interpretations of interpretations of interpretations). What LEADERS do is bring people together.
Now this is not purely analogous to proselytizers. Metas can, and do grow from leaders. But what I most miss about PG program is it did the things that ARE a bit of a grind: Demo days to randomly introduce the game to "walk ins" and Journeyman leagues that give new players a slow ramp (both time and financially and rule set wise) into the game. I think the biggest challenge in at least our meta is that neither of those things are happening - and it corresponds to a lack of sales for the LGS (and thus frustration with our hobby because we are not generating revenue). If _I_ was king for the day over at PP this would be the subject of a staff retreat and research project for my marketing team.
Now that might be a short retreat. I wonder if PP has figured out that from a very hard headed cost standpoint internet sales (both direct and then larg'ish retailers like DG that support internet sales) is just much more cost effective than the distributor-LGS model.
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Post by michael on Jun 12, 2019 15:40:08 GMT
... If you are worried about the experience, well no one has experience. I think there is this weird community expectation that is an unfortunate hold over from the Press Ganger days when people expected EOs to be part time employees of PP (which is probably why PP dropped the program) rather than volunteers. ... This is very true! I witnessed equal parts fantastic and atrocious PGs in my years in the PG program. The pattern repeats in every arena of life, from work, to MMOs, to, well, everywhere. All you really need is enthusiasm, basic organizational and interpersonal skills, and the drive to make your desires a reality. All the other stuff is, well, ancillary at best. Having an awesome flyer means nothing if you can’t remember to post it in a timely fashion, or convince the venue owner to put your event on the schedule, or remember to pick the scenarios in advance, or whatever. (Okay, okay, I came back to this thread after I voluntarily said I was getting out...I know.)
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Post by marxlives on Jun 12, 2019 19:01:32 GMT
... If you are worried about the experience, well no one has experience. I think there is this weird community expectation that is an unfortunate hold over from the Press Ganger days when people expected EOs to be part time employees of PP (which is probably why PP dropped the program) rather than volunteers. ... This is very true! I witnessed equal parts fantastic and atrocious PGs in my years in the PG program. The pattern repeats in every arena of life, from work, to MMOs, to, well, everywhere. All you really need is enthusiasm, basic organizational and interpersonal skills, and the drive to make your desires a reality. All the other stuff is, well, ancillary at best. Having an awesome flyer means nothing if you can’t remember to post it in a timely fashion, or convince the venue owner to put your event on the schedule, or remember to pick the scenarios in advance, or whatever. (Okay, okay, I came back to this thread after I voluntarily said I was getting out...I know.) And honestly, if you are trying to build or sustain a scene, I have yet to meet a FLGS that will not only give you a space to play but actually help with getting the word out and stuff. Just ask them.
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Post by marxlives on Jun 12, 2019 19:10:31 GMT
If you are worried about the experience, well no one has experience. I think there is this weird community expectation that is an unfortunate hold over from the Press Ganger days when people expected EOs to be part time employees of PP (which is probably why PP dropped the program) rather than volunteers. You don't see this issue with 40k and it is completely volunteer. There are not even any official world tournaments sponsored by GW. EOs are just people who are using social media and social skills to coordinate meet up times. +1. THAT should not be the barrier. Experience is worthwhile (because you can help with the rules) but this game is complicated. I have often compared it to Talmudic commentary (if you don't know about that read up on it and chuckle about WM/H - interpretations of interpretations of interpretations). What LEADERS do is bring people together.
Now this is not purely analogous to proselytizers. Metas can, and do grow from leaders. But what I most miss about PG program is it did the things that ARE a bit of a grind: Demo days to randomly introduce the game to "walk ins" and Journeyman leagues that give new players a slow ramp (both time and financially and rule set wise) into the game. I think the biggest challenge in at least our meta is that neither of those things are happening - and it corresponds to a lack of sales for the LGS (and thus frustration with our hobby because we are not generating revenue). If _I_ was king for the day over at PP this would be the subject of a staff retreat and research project for my marketing team.
Now that might be a short retreat. I wonder if PP has figured out that from a very hard headed cost standpoint internet sales (both direct and then larg'ish retailers like DG that support internet sales) is just much more cost effective than the distributor-LGS model.
When it comes to retailers or FLGS's the biggest thing I see is that they usually don't want to take time to contact PP and set up and account with them even though the process is posted on their website. privateerpress.com/support/retailer-supportMost just want to stick through Alliance or some other distributor rather than going through PP and a distributor. But it sees like PP wants to remove the middle man all together and just directly deal with stores. Which from an analytics side makes sense. IF you are working directly with brick and mortar stores with an online presence and people are ordering through you, you get a clearer picture of what sales look like. It seems like the only ones who want to stick to the standard distributor middle man model are some LGS'.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jun 13, 2019 9:50:49 GMT
Has Privateer done that? Can you point to a magazine ad, or Facebook ad/post, or anything directly from Privateer that says that? Or is that the way that players try to market the game, or perhaps the perception that has randomly accrued in the community? Hmm? Page 5 used to make it sound like a competitive serious game I miss page 5 so much, it was really good.
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Post by michael on Jun 13, 2019 17:21:03 GMT
Page 5 used to make it sound like a competitive serious game I miss page 5 so much, it was really good. Do we need to rehash all the reasons why Page 5 was good in 2003 but bad in 2010+?
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 14, 2019 4:28:13 GMT
I miss page 5 so much, it was really good. Do we need to rehash all the reasons why Page 5 was good in 2003 but bad in 2010+? The spirit of Page 5 could have lived on, with different wording etc. Instead we have a community that clamors for nerfs and a ride on the CID bus. The change is very noticeable, even the devs have said as much. Page 5 is a Call to Arms to grit your teeth and give it your all. WM/H as a game is very rewarding, especially when things start clicking and you start gaining mastery.
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Post by marxlives on Jun 24, 2019 15:21:18 GMT
Since you only need 4 players, I think the allure is you can run this with just a small core of players who are getting bored with competitive play in your area. It not necessary for the whole meta to participate. It is also good for home groups.
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enoto
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by enoto on Sept 22, 2019 1:18:26 GMT
Now that Oblivion is actually out, I'd like to warm up this thread!
In a couple weeks, I am going to get Oblivion and then hopefully play WM the next day with some buddies. I'd like to do some advance prep with them, and figured I'd ask some preliminary questions so we all know what we need and what to expect out of the first session.
1. What points level do the scenarios start at in the official campaign? 2. There will be three of us. That means two of us will be a team, right? For "Tier 1", how many games total will we play and at what level? For subsequent tiers, how many total games? 3. How do the Omen cards work?
I really haven't been able to find much in the way of a detailed breakdown of the campaign. If anyone's able to point me at one, much appreciated!
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Post by michael on Sept 22, 2019 1:34:09 GMT
It starts at either 20 or 25 points, in Company-of-Iron-ish scenarios. Play them with CoI rules. You end up playing...uh...8 games per player? in a branching scenario tree. You really should tr to find a 4th player so you can have even good vs. bad teams. PP is supposed to provide a printable version of the scenario tree. Check under “Organized Play” on their site. You gain omen cards by doing stuff in the scenarios, and probably some other way I don’t remember. Basically they are one-use pseudo-feats, similar to slightly weaker Grymkin arcana cards.
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enoto
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by enoto on Sept 22, 2019 2:11:28 GMT
Thanks, Michael! Can you explain what you mean by "Company of Iron"-ish? Meaning no warcasters or warjacks allowed for the first few games? Are rules provided for how to play it without CoI or do you just need to have that? If we didn't want to bother with CoI would battlebox or 10ish-point games work OK? Or would the scenarios be no good for that? After how many games do you switch to using a warcaster/warlock? We definitely will only have 3 - it's me plus my two buddies, who I used to play WM/H frequently with back in the MK II days, but I only game with them a few times a year now. I was hoping this could be something we could do when we do get together, even if it takes a couple years to wrap up Some PP published support would definitely be great but as we all know they can be, uh, not super on the ball on this stuff. Thanks for putting up with all my questions! It's harder to get information on this stuff these days than it should be.
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Post by michael on Sept 22, 2019 2:48:01 GMT
The first two scenarios are explicitly units and solos only, no casters or jacks, which is why I mentioned CoI. It’s basically the same in look and feel, if not rules. The scenarios are basically “a patrol got ambushed” and “the survivors got away and got reinforcements”. Pretty sure you get to casters and battlegroups after that, but I am kind of lazy and haven’t looked recently. I actually think I found the printout once, but don’t swear me to it. And yes, no kidding! I hate the shrapnelization of communication over the last few years...
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