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Post by auraco on May 28, 2019 16:31:08 GMT
Can we unpack this a bit more? Because if you think that Pikes are easy to kill you should thing Doomies are eas(ier) to kill - trading a point of defense for a point of Armor (and then a couple of defensive pieces of tech like Shield wall/iron Zeal).
Reavers are easy to kill, but easier to kill is arguable. As far as base stats go they have the same armor, both have 14, so not trading a point of armore for anything, the difference between def 13 and def 12 is actually pretty huge, and native tough will save you some dudes/make an opponent waste attacks. Pikemen have the option for shield wall, but if you want them to cover as much board space as the reavers you'll need to run them and then have inferior defensive stats and no native tough, which makes them, well squishier than reavers in situation like these, and we all know that reavers are super squishy. On the turn when you charge you'll run into the same issue, def 12 arm 14 no native tough. This is why I'm saying they are squish. I don't think anyone will argue that they are expansive on top of that.
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Post by michael on May 28, 2019 16:34:35 GMT
I agree with auraco’s assessment. That has been my experience as well.
Also, being forced to clump B2B seems like suicide nowadays. Too much stuff is just like “thanks for lining up the buffet for me!”
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Post by sand20go on May 28, 2019 17:09:01 GMT
Can we unpack this a bit more? Because if you think that Pikes are easy to kill you should thing Doomies are eas(ier) to kill - trading a point of defense for a point of Armor (and then a couple of defensive pieces of tech like Shield wall/iron Zeal).
Reavers are easy to kill, but easier to kill is arguable. As far as base stats go they have the same armor, both have 14, so not trading a point of armore for anything, the difference between def 13 and def 12 is actually pretty huge, and native tough will save you some dudes/make an opponent waste attacks. Pikemen have the option for shield wall, but if you want them to cover as much board space as the reavers you'll need to run them and then have inferior defensive stats and no native tough, which makes them, well squishier than reavers in situation like these, and we all know that reavers are super squishy. On the turn when you charge you'll run into the same issue, def 12 arm 14 no native tough. This is why I'm saying they are squish. I don't think anyone will argue that they are expansive on top of that. But doomies are actually slightly MORE expensive on a model basis.
THanks for the catch on the armor. I don't know WHY I want to make the doomies with just a loin cloth less armor than guys with shields and armor. Just my age addled mind ;-)
Innate tough vs. access to no knockdown through the IFP _IF_ you bring something that gives them tough.
I think the big issue is AD _AND_ apparate. It is those 2 things that make models that are REASONABLY close on paper so in favor of Wolves. TO me the question is if we are going to give up those 2 things for models that are very similar in many situations I want to get something equally good in return. Until then... dusty ;-)
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on May 29, 2019 6:46:21 GMT
Shield and wall of steel instead of shield wall, just sayin' I think it'd work fine for the black dragons, slightly tougher and faster than normal pikemen, though normal pikemen still retain the advantage of relentless charge.
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Post by Havock on May 29, 2019 14:47:34 GMT
Pikes are more survivable against weak things and dinky blasts (unless they land behind them), the problem is that you get roughly the same number of Doom Reavers for the same number of Pikemen (20 for twelve doomies, 19 for 11 pikemen and one flag), the difference is that two Doomreavers are dangerous, whereas a lot of things can shrug off four pikemen.
And once you go beyond POW10 and unboosted, low-POW blasts they will all die the same.
And while you should always be careful with cross-faction comparisons, compare Pikemen with Dawnguard Sentinels.
(not saying pikemen need weaponmaster btw, just that they really ought to shave 2 points off the base max unit cost)
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Post by michael on May 29, 2019 15:51:35 GMT
Shield and wall of steel instead of shield wall, just sayin' I think it'd work fine for the black dragons, slightly tougher and faster than normal pikemen, though normal pikemen still retain the advantage of relentless charge. Honestly, that has been my suggestion for Assault Kommandos for ages. You should have seen this crazy idea I had about two years ago for an Assault Kommandos theme force. It was all based around the question “What has Khador been doing with all the alchemical wealth they have plundered from Llael?” It was this awesome army concept based around ranged units and layered alchemical debuffs. And then, of course, Crucible Guard happened. So... yeah. But anyway...
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