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Post by profdikweed on May 18, 2019 7:51:26 GMT
With the new (note still in cid) scenarios it looks like we are going to be forced to play wider. Im very excited on how they look, i think the SR changes made in 2018 were phenomenal for chaning and shaping the meta.
I thought I'd make a thread to open the discussion on how the new scenarios will affect the gamespace. How do you think this will affect list building in general, also also specifically troll list building?
I think we are going to see a rise in min stone. I think most lists will have a corr that contests the middle and owns a side, which some other flanking element contest the other. With forcing our armies to play wider, the exta 2" for max stone will become less relevant.
Ambushing units will become more important. We're also blessed with two really good ambushing units, though the lookouts excelled at killing flag camping solos, and they will now be in the middle.
Im a bit worried about the scenarios with three flags right in the middle. The trolls solo list is pretty abysmal, and outside valka and to a lesser extent the fell caller our solos die pretty easily. I think we will see a rise in tanky warcasters who can capture a flag safely.
I have a jarl Sotn list that I think I will change up a little and put into the ring for this wider scenario play. With three upkeeps it means his buffs can spread wide, and magic bullet will work so well for solo hunting.
What are you looking forward to with the new SR scenarios
What are you thoughts?
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325 
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Post by bundeez on May 18, 2019 15:26:14 GMT
I think it's bad news for Trollbloods.. Madrak1, Madrak2, Borka2 all have small control area which is even worse now. Grim1 is not super excited either I would asume. Kolgrimma might be okay with it, but prefer to brick up a little bit to get the most out of the clouds. But feating on opponents army will be more difficult now since she has to do it turn 2 to have game. I have had several games with her where I couldn't reach all of their important stuff. Jarl might be decent, I can agree upon that. And yes the soloes all suck, guess best option is to bring whelps or feralgeist/gremling swarm. Not sure how I feel about the ambush. Every time I ambush bears, they charge in kill 2/3 models (never worth 10 points mind you) and then die. Very unimpressive to me. They really need the krielstone to either survive or hit hard enough to kill heavies. Now that zones are easier to get to from the sides doesn't change that fact at all. Now whether all of this is because Trollbloods just plain suck right now, or is because the faction is designed as a brick playstyle around the krielstone and other support bloat, I don't know. I would absolutely love to play Madrak2 mk2 style with burrowers, fennblades, krielwarriors, warders, usable light beasts in the troopmachine meta we se now (same as it was in mk2) but I'll just keep dreaming and switch faction  |
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Post by dickovdk on May 19, 2019 6:26:21 GMT
I think it's bad news for Trollbloods.. Now whether all of this is because Trollbloods just plain suck right now, or is because the faction is designed as a brick playstyle around the krielstone and other support bloat, I don't know. I would agree to this, but lets look at the bright side Runebearer helps with the ctrl size making some of the locks not just right out suck. TB is build with the 12 point Stone in mind without it, well we all know how trolls stats are, but think we should look towards our Merc options to find something useful to aid. Northkin Bears with Ambush is actually stronger, not due to their killing but due to the threat people feel when they know these 6 furry dudes arrive. And Bearka as an example is pretty harden himself so he can play up the middle taking some punishment as a front line caster putting pressure on multiple zone for scoring. I was actually planning to try to run Grim2 again he doesnt really need more help with the ctrl so he is good to go but with a list containing Dahlia - SR2019 actually made that even more interesting I think as the girl and snake can really annoy people on one side while taking the other. Personally I feel our strongest unit (bears), our versitile caster (kolgrima) and our best theme (northkin) became more dominating in TB rest is push a bit more down the ladder |
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Post by allinontrolls on May 19, 2019 14:13:30 GMT
i am not sure if Kolfrima is really good anymore with the new objective offering eyless sight...Bearka could be an option and any list which does not depend on a stone could be more interesting. A all grim2 shooty list could be an interesting option.
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Post by mydnight on May 19, 2019 22:10:12 GMT
Madrak3  |
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on May 20, 2019 4:57:02 GMT
I think the spread out scenarios will definitely change our list building.
King of the hill:
rectangular zones are so close to edge that bears are good to clear them, but they can't control them. And if our battlegroup is single colossal of quite popular EDBT-mauler, we don't have spare beast to control zone that far from center. Too bad we don't have lessers. But one cheap lightbeast is not bad option to have.
Bunkers:
3 flag on center line. Normal troll list have 3-4 solos. One of them is runebearer and all of them cost at least 4p so you really don't wont to change them to 1 scenario point. In mirage troll caster could control flag nearest your table edge but central line goes over our comfort zone.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on May 20, 2019 5:09:28 GMT
Agreed, Kolgrimma has not been good for a while now. Not just the new objective, a lot of stuff out there has access to eyeless sight: Siege Animantarax, Lynus & Edrea/Mist speaker, Alyce, Rhoven etc. all common to see on the table. But that's not the real issue imo, sprays is. Soooo many sprays out there, which just counter anti-shooting hard. PP: "Hey Cygnar sucks now, let's make a new faction that works the same, but better; Lots of sprays!" "Judicator is pretty OP let's copy that. New Merc colos should have sprays!" "Clockatrice needs to have a gun.. Lets give it a paralyzing spray with assault!!" "New infernal beast with gun? Spray and assault." "New update for the storm raptor? Spra.. wait wait, people are getting suspicious, lets just make it crazy good without spray, still counter clouds of course. Yeah."  |
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on May 20, 2019 5:48:38 GMT
Agreed, Kolgrimma has not been good for a while now. Not just the new objective, a lot of stuff out there has access to eyeless sight: I don't say Kolgrima wouldn't be good. She just don't have the auto-pilot button any more. But it is very true that she is now much more in danger than before. BUT she still have really good control feat that save our army from shooting and mess enemy plans. And I think she is still good scenario player, even scenarios go harder to us. |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on May 20, 2019 11:23:26 GMT
I'm looking at either Grim, Madrak2 and 3, and potentially Doomshaper1, Jarl, and Gunnbjorn as my favored Warlocks going into next year. I really want to see something done with PoD (Boomhowlers Partisan and gain ambush like in Mercs would be interesting and could really help some things, lost a point or three would be awesome as well). I also would caution not to throw everything out. Yea, there are some new scenarios that spread, but there are ones that can still be played more traditionally as well. It seems like another year where the list pair is King, which isn't really a bad thing if they can somehow break up the "Skorne/Circle single list does it all" dynamic that is trending. I'm still partial to Grissel2 as well, but the list building with her is a path to madness.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on May 20, 2019 19:05:58 GMT
Wondering if Dahlia & Skarath will see their stocks rise. Great self sufficient objective/zone harasser that doesn't care about the Krielstone aura.
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Post by profdikweed on May 20, 2019 21:52:31 GMT
Wondering if Dahlia & Skarath will see their stocks rise. Great self sufficient objective/zone harasser that doesn't care about the Krielstone aura. I was thinking of this as well, particularily with calandra, maybe sotn. With the wide square zones you may see further BE play, where beffudle works wonders. Her massive control range as well will help. |
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Post by gobber on May 21, 2019 3:48:59 GMT
Madrak3 is definitely intriguing on those split scenarios. I'd actually be curious to CID test the stone at FA2 under these scenarios; I could see double min stone being a decent choice. Most concerning thing about that would probably be stacking different elder buffs, but the 18pts of support bloat needed to do any of that really contains any possible brokenness.
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cuberic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by cuberic on May 21, 2019 4:25:45 GMT
I am going to be experimenting without the stone. The scenarios are too wide for it
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on May 21, 2019 4:52:27 GMT
I am going to be experimenting without the stone. The scenarios are too wide for it Good to test, but I don't think playing whitout stone is the best way. Better to play so that whole army is not on stone. Kriel warriors are our only single-wound infantry that really needs to be on stone (or they will die and be cheap kills). |
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Post by dickovdk on May 21, 2019 9:59:12 GMT
Wondering if Dahlia & Skarath will see their stocks rise. Great self sufficient objective/zone harasser that doesn't care about the Krielstone aura. I was thinking of this as well, particularily with calandra, maybe sotn. With the wide square zones you may see further BE play, where beffudle works wonders. Her massive control range as well will help. As I wrote further up I was doing the same thing in dojoing only (havent had time to try it out) with Grim2 My plan was Grim2 & friends - Runebearer - 2x Blitzers War wagon Dahlia & Skarath Braylen Wanderheart 2x Sluggers Highwaymen Again its only theory but seem like a fun list to try out |
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