crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on May 18, 2019 16:59:58 GMT
The +1 pt increase was to shut up the whiners I would argue the same goes for Behemoth. People used to whine constantly about how Behemoth was OP, but ever since it got a 4% point increase, I haven’t hear anything about it. I mean, 24 vs 25 points hardly makes or breaks a jack. But, sometimes people overreact to errata (how many models have gotten an errata, people complained they were unplayable trash now, only for someone to find out a few months later that it is still good?), and if a 4% increase in points causes people to overreact in a good way...
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on May 18, 2019 17:05:30 GMT
Trust me guys, I tried. I’ve had more than a few...spirited discussions ... with local players who insist (usually in a rage) that Khador has the best warjack P+S out there*, and they are always surprised to learn that we are basically scraping the bottom of the barrel once you look at the actual data. Back in mark 2 I was about to punch a whining legion player(who was spamming ravagors no less) who said my 2 juggies were op. I spoke to him with such a harshness that he never came back again. I really cannot stand all the whine. Our speed is 4.. any speed damping spells or feats, forest etc practically makes us imobile and we are ALWAYS hit. ALWAYS so any spell to debuff or take over our dudes will suceed. but but "vlad" yeah uh huh... You want to mess with someone spamming Ravagores, then bring Strakhov, Torch and Assault Kommandos. I’ve noticed that some Legion players aren’t used to being told that they have to follow rules or they can’t do things because of all the eyeless sight and flight in their faction. As such, when they go all in on fire damage and run into a caster, jack, and some infantry that is immune, it totally wrecks their game plan and we get into “Assault Kommandos OP, plz nerf” and “immunities are unfair” territory.
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on May 19, 2019 5:13:40 GMT
Ha ha ha lol..
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Post by michael on May 19, 2019 16:56:31 GMT
The +1 pt increase was to shut up the whiners I would argue the same goes for Behemoth. People used to whine constantly about how Behemoth was OP, but ever since it got a 4% point increase, I haven’t hear anything about it. I mean, 24 vs 25 points hardly makes or breaks a jack. But, sometimes people overreact to errata (how many models have gotten an errata, people complained they were unplayable trash now, only for someone to find out a few months later that it is still good?), and if a 4% increase in points causes people to overreact in a good way... Conversely, I would argue that Behemoth is overcosted at 24. Also the Behemoth “thing” was compounded by his ubiquity right after MK III dropped and pre-themes, and the fact that everybody seemed absolutely shocked and overwhelmed for the first several months of MK III because Khador could run a warjack list thanks to Power Up.Now...? He’s too much for what he does, especially considering the single theme in which he can appear. He’s only marginally more difficult to destroy or lock down than the 11-point Marauder.
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on May 19, 2019 16:59:32 GMT
People are stupid about how they react to khador, imo we are like c rank fas competitive factions go.. but but armor and hit hard.. well, we are slow, and the game is scenario heavy..
Imo, behe+rager is the same pts as conquest and more reliable.
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Post by michael on May 19, 2019 17:12:53 GMT
People are stupid about how they react to khador, imo we are like c rank fas competitive factions go.. but but armor and hit hard.. well, we are slow, and the game is scenario heavy.. Preaching to the choir, dude. I can’t help but be reminded of the fools on the CID forums during the Armored Corps CID, when I posted multiple battle reports on Spread the Net and concluded that AC basically couldn’t win that on scenario, and at best could try “not to lose” on scenario. (This was before the Advance Move benefit.) Those clowns were suggesting idiotic “solutions” that involved throwing away Drakhuns and Chariots just to contest, because somehow “practically auto-lose on scenario” is an acceptable trade off for having higher-than-average base ARM...?
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on May 19, 2019 17:17:49 GMT
Lol, people are stupid
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Post by sand20go on May 20, 2019 20:12:46 GMT
I would argue the same goes for Behemoth. People used to whine constantly about how Behemoth was OP, but ever since it got a 4% point increase, I haven’t hear anything about it. I mean, 24 vs 25 points hardly makes or breaks a jack. But, sometimes people overreact to errata (how many models have gotten an errata, people complained they were unplayable trash now, only for someone to find out a few months later that it is still good?), and if a 4% increase in points causes people to overreact in a good way... Conversely, I would argue that Behemoth is overcosted at 24. Also the Behemoth “thing” was compounded by his ubiquity right after MK III dropped and pre-themes, and the fact that everybody seemed absolutely shocked and overwhelmed for the first several months of MK III because Khador could run a warjack list thanks to Power Up.Now...? He’s too much for what he does, especially considering the single theme in which he can appear. He’s only marginally more difficult to destroy or lock down than the 11-point Marauder. +Many
Sadly I know it will never happen but I would so love to have behemoth examined in a "jaws" CID. He really is hugely overcosted compared to things like Tibers or Molik Karn who have similarly impressive "kill everything" stat totals.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on May 21, 2019 0:38:04 GMT
I wonder, how many of the Pre-Themepocalypse nerfs can actually be rolled back?
Karchev seems like a pretty good candidate, maybe even Kovnik Joe due to the resurgence of High Def Armies like Tharn and Rocketmen.
I would argue that Juggy at 12 should be looked at again.
Remember how WG Rocketeers were gonna explode the World 3 years ago? Notice how nobody has said dick about them recently? Do you know what they would be pretty good against if they could actually hit? It rhymes with Tharn :-P
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on May 21, 2019 1:22:30 GMT
Yeah, kar at least needs his old tow ability back!
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Post by michael on May 21, 2019 1:44:06 GMT
Yeah, kar at least needs his old tow ability back! Tow was kind of a rules nightmare in some corner cases and there's no sensible way for it to be viable in this edition with Power Up and Forge Seers.
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Post by michael on May 21, 2019 1:52:06 GMT
Conversely, I would argue that Behemoth is overcosted at 24. Also the Behemoth “thing” was compounded by his ubiquity right after MK III dropped and pre-themes, and the fact that everybody seemed absolutely shocked and overwhelmed for the first several months of MK III because Khador could run a warjack list thanks to Power Up.Now...? He’s too much for what he does, especially considering the single theme in which he can appear. He’s only marginally more difficult to destroy or lock down than the 11-point Marauder. +Many
Sadly I know it will never happen but I would so love to have behemoth examined in a "jaws" CID. He really is hugely overcosted compared to things like Tibers or Molik Karn who have similarly impressive "kill everything" stat totals.
It's wacky how some people perceive SPD 4 P+S 12 "Armor Piercing" as somehow significantly more threatening than a SPD 4 + free charge P+S 19/19/18 + 5 bought P+S 19 ttacks (Bronzeback + PGBH), or heck, even a P+S 20/16 + 3 bought attacks in a 10-point package (Crusader + Choir, and no, the Choir's points don't count. When something is legit "auto-include no matter what", just no, that argument doesn't fly.)
Blah blah blah, most people are dumb, Khador is best in spirit but needs to be better here and there, etc.
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on May 21, 2019 2:50:32 GMT
Yeah, kar at least needs his old tow ability back! Tow was kind of a rules nightmare in some corner cases and there's no sensible way for it to be viable in this edition with Power Up and Forge Seers. fair enough, maybe something like escort? Doesn't matter, pp ignores us like all game companies
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Post by gobber on May 21, 2019 3:58:06 GMT
Yeah, kar at least needs his old tow ability back! Tow was kind of a rules nightmare in some corner cases and there's no sensible way for it to be viable in this edition with Power Up and Forge Seers. Tow was super weird; let's not bring the twisty runs back. The Ironhead's power lifter ability would make way more sense, and result in some pretty scary threat ranges when combined with road to war and Sorscha0?
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on May 21, 2019 14:35:13 GMT
Would giving out heavy boilers to some of the jacks help? Making them essentially SPD5 when running.
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