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Post by TTGuilds on May 13, 2019 13:35:28 GMT
I played years ago and wanting to give the game a try with my kids. I have some models to get us started but need some feedback on what should be our next purchases to fill out the force they are both a little Jack heavy. We are thinking 50 points to get started and should have enough for those points no problem. Guessing 100 points is the normal size so need to know what to add for that size.
• Anson Durst • High Exemplar Kreoss • Malekus • Sovereign Tristan Durant • Avatar of Menoth • Castigator • Reckoner x2 • Repenter x2 • Revenger • Sanctifier • Scourge of Heresy • Templar • Vigilant • Deliverers unit of 10 • Exemplar Cinerators unit of 5 • Paladin Wall • Vassal of Menoth
Thinking a unit of Flame Guard would be nice.
Thanks
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on May 13, 2019 16:05:49 GMT
Have you looked at themes at all yet? The game more or less runs on them now and you will be better off picking a theme to build in then buying models that can be taken in that theme.
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Post by TTGuilds on May 13, 2019 16:47:11 GMT
Themes are all new to me so I will read up on those today. I don't recall anything like that when I played so maybe that started in mk2. Give me a little bit and should have a idea.
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a2
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by a2 on May 13, 2019 16:58:38 GMT
draycos is on the nose, you can find theme forces on this page: warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Protectorate_of_Menoth75 points is the standard, 50 or even 35 are perfectly reasonable starting points though. Theme forces are crucial because you get free “cards” (solos and CA’s, usually) for every x theme qualifying points you spend. This often means that playing in theme grants you about an additional 15 points. They also give two bonuses, for example Faithful Masses grants you a free wall. Of course, if both players play without themes the game should be balanced, but if one does then it will be an uphill battle. Our most competitive themes are Exemplar Interdiction and Faithful Masses, followed by Creator’s Might (which doesn’t have many top-tier builds but is playable) and Guardians of the Temple (our weakest theme, but definitely not “unplayably bad”, though it doesn’t see much build variety) While not the most competitive caster or theme, you seem to have a good start to a Reznik 1 list with Scourge of Heresy, two Repenters and Redeemers, and a Revenger clocking in at 36 points. You could also run a similar list (though with not Scourge due to theme restrictions and character jacks) with Kreoss 1. I don’t know the caster very well, but the Reckoners, Templar, Vigilant, Sanctifier and Castigator may be good with Durst (who can also play a jack heavy game in Faithful Masses) If you wish to invest in Creator’s might, top of the purchase list I would recommend 1 (eventually 2) units of choir and Severius 0. Severius 0 is amazing and can also be played in Exemplar Interdiction. He will need an attached jack, most people run a Dervish because it is cheap and fast, but a Reckoner has synergy with Road to War and aiming. I would also recommend an Exemplar Warder (can also be played in Exemplar Interdiction) and the Covenant of Menoth (can also be played in Faithful Masses), they are strong scoring pieces with very useful utility. After that, a Hierophant and Wracks are evergreen across almost all the themes. Finally, though an expensive investment, a Judicator is our strongest ranged piece and sees play with a variety of themes and casters There’s an ongoing thread discussing Reznik 1 builds here: lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/8399/tactica-high-executioner-servath-reznik
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Post by TTGuilds on May 13, 2019 17:39:00 GMT
So I found a PDF on PP web site with theme armies. Not sure if this all of them but looking at these I like The Faithful Masses and Exemplar Interdiction. With the faithful masses I will be getting a unit of Zealots and Idrian skirmishers for sure.
Thanks A2 I will check those out threads out for sure.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on May 13, 2019 20:28:48 GMT
Based on the models that you do own already, I think you are good to field a "Creators might" Jacklist at 50 points (or more I haven't done the math yet). Just something to keep in mind.
No matter what lists you go with you will want a unit of Choir.
Edit: Creator's Might 35 points (34 total taken)
Malekus Castigator Reckoner x2 Repenter x2 Vassel of Menoth Choir of Menoth (min unit)
Add in a wrack if you have one (or proxy it). Malekus' feat will boost damage on all of the ranged attacks from the jacks. He also has a decent amount of Focus for running jacks. (he can also cast open fire to get additional attacks out of the Reckoners or Ignite on the castigator for a good round of punching.
35 points is an excellent place to start especially if you are teaching kids. (lists with duplicates of the same thing are good too.)
Do you have a second faction already to play against?
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Post by TTGuilds on May 13, 2019 20:46:19 GMT
Thanks for that info I will start looking for a Choir unit.
The 2nd faction is Cygnar. I actually started a thread there with my listed models also.
I know our first 3 or 4 games will be clunky and not really using stuff to the max but if we can get the feel for the game and then he can pick a faction he likes. Maybe he will use the current models but if not I can sell or trade these as needed.
I also like to play jack heavy lists because using a large hulking robot or beast is more fun than lots of units. I did read that mk2 was more infantry but mk3 is more jacks again.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 14, 2019 16:46:30 GMT
Based on what you have, you can easily field a Creator's Might list. At some point you're going to want to expand your 'caster selection, since what you have is a bit limited, but that can happen later. When you do, I highly recommend Harbinger, High Reclaimer, Kreoss3, Severius 1 and/or 2, Reznik1 and/or 2, and Thyra. Any of those will complement your collection and broaden your options. Probably should start with Reznik1, as you have his character 'jack Scourge of Heresy.
A Choir is vital for Protectorate. Get one as your first purchase. I would also heavily consider a Hierophant. He's a great 'caster attachment. You might also consider Severius0, the solo, as he fits in Creator's Might and Exemplar Interdiction, and is seriously good. He runs a mean Repenter.
Since you're also interested in Faithful Masses and Exemplar Interdiction, here are a few good purchases for each.
Exemplar Interdiction: A CA for your Cinerators; a second squad of Cinerators (pick 'em up cheap on eBay) with CA; a squad of Vengers; a squad of Bastions; a squad of Errants + CA (I like them); Exemplar Warder(s); Exemplar Warder Elias Gade; High Exemplar Gravus. In order to get to a good playable state, I'd say at a minimum you need a couple of units (two Cinerators is great, especially with Durst) and probably Gravus for Desperate Pace. Everything else is just gravy.
Faithful Masses: Idrians; Paladin solos (Champions and Dartan Vilmon); Initiates of the Wall. Much as I wish it were otherwise, Zealots don't perform how you want them to as they have a short ranged threat range, poor accuracy, and tend to die in droves before doing much of anything. If you want to make Zealots perform, there are a handful of 'casters who can help you out (High Reclaimer, Severius1, Feora3) but usually you'll get more bang for your buck with Idrians instead. Plus, you already have Deliverers, who perform that role better.
To complement your Warjack selection, the Crusader kit is a good buy. Crusaders are a fine budget 'jack. An Indictor wouldn't steer you wrong either. These are only fun purchases, as you already have a workable stable. Our lights are great too. Consider the Dervish, especially if you pick up Severius0. I also personally love the Redeemer. He gets work done every game for me.
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Post by TTGuilds on May 15, 2019 12:08:58 GMT
Thanks Hashmal for that info. I think my first purchase will be Choir for sure and I agree adding another caster would open up more options for the list. I like the look of Zealots but if they don't work great and good point the delivers kinda do the same thing. Idrians models look nice too. On the crusader I do have one but forgot to list it at the top. When I look at models I also think about will they kill enough to pay for their points or will the draw enough fire to allow others to do what they need to. I think Crusaders fall right in there, they are cheap and the enemy has to spend time to kill it because they can pretty easily kill 6 points of stuff.
Hope to start painting tonight on some jacks I will post pics as I go.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 15, 2019 16:36:42 GMT
You can also look at several recent events for Protectorate stuff to get a lay of the land of what people are playing. I'm not advocating netlisting as a general strategy, but it is useful when you're trying to figure out what to purchase with limited funds.
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Post by TTGuilds on May 15, 2019 18:52:18 GMT
Yeah netlisting is a thing these days and I get it but not my style I would rather build my own list. I have no problem looking at those for suggestions of models that work well together but we all have to play our own game.
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Post by greytemplar on May 17, 2019 16:40:39 GMT
As mentioned, you need to get choir. How you got that much Protectorate without Choir is rather miraculous. You could use some different Warcasters too. I'd look at maybe Vindictus and Harbinger. Along with that, you should get some Knights Exemplar and their UA(2 units if you can) and some of our Exemplar solos. The Warder and Exemplar Seneschal. Then you can make a nice Exemplar focused list with Vindictus. Allegiants of the Order of the Fist are another thing you should have two of. At 3 points they are a steal. Great roadblocks who will make your opponents rage. Especially if you combine them with Vindictus for extra speed+pathfinder or Harbinger where you can martyr them.
Maybe also consider Sevy0. The junior warcaster version of him. He's 6 points for Eye of Menoth and extra fuel for a jack, and in some of our themes he can be free.
Finally, if you have any sort of tablet or smart phone, you should get Warroom2. Its well worth paying the $8 for the faction deck to have access to the digital cards and rulebook which gets updated promptly. The physical cards and rulebook PDF do not get updated promptly. Plus it gives you an excellent list creation tool with all the themeforce mechanics and free points calculated automatically, not to mention damage tracking during a game. I really cannot imagine playing with physical cards anymore.
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Post by greytemplar on May 17, 2019 16:45:17 GMT
I think Crusaders fall right in there, they are cheap and the enemy has to spend time to kill it because they can pretty easily kill 6 points of stuff.
So thats the Mk2 price for Crusaders. Crusaders are 10 pts in Mk3. Make sure you are using the Mk3 cards. You can tell because Mk3 cards will list the base size as well as the name above the statline of characters will always include a number.
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Post by TTGuilds on May 17, 2019 18:13:45 GMT
As mentioned, you need to get choir. How you got that much Protectorate without Choir is rather miraculous. You could use some different Warcasters too. I'd look at maybe Vindictus and Harbinger. Along with that, you should get some Knights Exemplar and their UA(2 units if you can) and some of our Exemplar solos. The Warder and Exemplar Seneschal. Then you can make a nice Exemplar focused list with Vindictus. Allegiants of the Order of the Fist are another thing you should have two of. At 3 points they are a steal. Great roadblocks who will make your opponents rage. Especially if you combine them with Vindictus for extra speed+pathfinder or Harbinger where you can martyr them.
Maybe also consider Sevy0. The junior warcaster version of him. He's 6 points for Eye of Menoth and extra fuel for a jack, and in some of our themes he can be free.
Finally, if you have any sort of tablet or smart phone, you should get Warroom2. Its well worth paying the $8 for the faction deck to have access to the digital cards and rulebook which gets updated promptly. The physical cards and rulebook PDF do not get updated promptly. Plus it gives you an excellent list creation tool with all the themeforce mechanics and free points calculated automatically, not to mention damage tracking during a game. I really cannot imagine playing with physical cards anymore.
Yeah choir on the top of my list. Might get 2 units because of the number of models I have and might do large games some day.
I got all these models second hand so don't think it was a playable force at all. I had to strip all the models because of some bad paint but good news is I'm getting to rebase all the models as I rebuild them.
I was going to load photos but looks like I need to have them in photo bucket to link over.
Thanks for the heads up on the crusader points. I was using Battlescribe app but didn't realize it was MK2. If my boys like the game I can see us getting Warroom2 just want to wait and make sure everyone likes the game before buying the app. The minis I could resale so would get some of the money back but the app would be lost.
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Post by greytemplar on May 17, 2019 18:15:51 GMT
Well as I said it’s only $8 per deck. The base app with the rule book and the free cards is free. So you can play some battle box games for free.
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