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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 29, 2019 12:59:14 GMT
So, what do we currently drop into Harbinger Faithful Masses? Base list is something like this, season to taste: conflictchamber.com/?c2201b_-0Om1lVme3k3kjCjC3E2_3G3HniniProtectorate Army - 62 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses [Harbinger 1] The Harbinger of Menoth [+27] - Judicator [34] - Hierophant [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [6] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Initiates of the Wall [0(7)] Initiates of the Wall [0(7)] With the introduction of Initiates, the old "force Martyrdoms until you can shoot her to death" hardly works anymore. Stalkers are good, but trade poorly into this list and get wrecked by Champions that charge 15". Our living lists can have the volume of attacks needed to battle through this, but they will suffer from Awe. Undead are probably too slow and/or lack volume. Even when you can battle through the rest of the list, there's still a Judicator left to deal with, that is peppering your army with POW 9 S&P blasts and a couple of sprays. Skarre 3 could probably work, but I feel she will eventually fall behind when she can't put in enough attacks anymore.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
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Post by Deller on Apr 29, 2019 18:38:47 GMT
So Cryx is one of the few factions where Force Martyrs until you shoot her to death does still work, you just need to shoot her with Spells & not Guns. Unless she’s bringing an Indictor, which I doubt, Harbinger has nothing to protect herself from eating boosted Hellfires to the face through an Arc Node. On Average a boosted Damage Hellfire deals Harby 5 Damage after she spends a Focus. A Caster like Asphyxious1 or Skarre1 can easily put 2 boosted Damage Hellfires into her in a single turn, which means she must camp at least 2 Focus every turn, and if she ever Martyrs down to half health or less, she’s putting herself at extreme risk of getting Hellfire’d to death.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 29, 2019 18:48:39 GMT
Witch coven may have some game with the ability to let your army just move through whatever they want, feat helps deliver the army and magic attacks are accurate enough to even hit the monks. Initiates are annoying to remove, but they don't hit very hard. Skirmishers can be problematic unless you can close on them. And the witch coven will get pretty nervous around the judicator just hoping to get lucky with rocket deviations. Any good deviation can significantly hurt or kill a witch. I would be tempted to bring a mechanithrall recursion engine into it, but I am not sure it would get very far, especially since you will be stalled for a turn on harbingers feat turn.
Alternatively, Skarre 3 with a lot of tough medium based troops might have some game as it doesn't appear that they have any grievous wounds or take down. Skarre can eat through the shield guard troops with her range, sucker off any lucky shots from the judicator, recur and repair with the ogrun repair guys. Clog up the champs with trolls and flank in with as many stalkers as you can, Kharybdis can handle the skirmishers. I guess it will come down to how lucky are you with tough rolls?
But I don't do a lot of scenario play and Harbinger is going to be very annoying to get to.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 29, 2019 18:49:44 GMT
I thought there was a light that let you be immune to being targeted by spells? And it was a shield guard? The Devout, which I thought was almost an auto include against our faction for the harbinger.
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Post by mydnight on Apr 29, 2019 22:16:31 GMT
Harbie can bring a Covenant and Devout for spell protection. Plus she can hide behind a Judy.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
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Post by Deller on Apr 30, 2019 4:41:46 GMT
Harbie can bring a Covenant and Devout for spell protection. Plus she can hide behind a Judy. The Covenant does not protect from channeling spells through Arc Nodes, only from direct casting. If Harby is bringing Both a Judicator & a Devout she needs to give up a free card. That’s 3 less Immortal Shield Guards you have to worry about. Seems fine.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 30, 2019 6:19:15 GMT
Yeah, it's going to be either a Judicator or some other battle group. Now that she can get 7 free shield guards that will never die, I think she will usually forego the Devout and Rhoven. Deller, she indeed has little spell protection, except she will still be sitting behind a wall, so DEF 18. It's very unlikely that both Hellfires will hit. tiberius, you can't eat through 7 shield guards every turn. They will never die because of Martyrdom and while you're shooting them, you're not shooting Idrians, which is fine by them. Though, you guys seem to agree that we shouldn't try to tech against the healing, because we can't really stack up. Except, I don't really think the assassination game is viable either
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Apr 30, 2019 18:12:31 GMT
As a Harby player, I hate the constant threat of Feedback from the Satyxis.
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Post by tiberius on May 1, 2019 10:34:14 GMT
What I would really want to drop into this is some bloat thralls and mobius. Auto-corrosion would clear out the idrians pretty handily despite them going to ground and being immune to the blast. Of course the rest of the army wouldn't really care because they are all multi-wound, but once you engage and start causing the harbinger to use martyrdom with your other units and guys, corrosion can double up that damage she has to take. With the exception of the monks, nothing in the list is very hard to hit, they just have a high armor and really as long as a brute can hit it, its probably taking damage or going down. Same with a mechanithrall with their combo strike. As long as you can keep the necrosurgeons alive, you can keep pumping them back in. The two biggest threats are the judicator which will take a lot of dedicated effort to drop and those sprays will do a lot of damage, and harbinger herself with his auto-hitting 5" AOE. But if she is getting close enough to use that with no arc node in the list, then that may be to our advantage as well.
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Post by NephMakes on May 1, 2019 14:59:46 GMT
dun-dun-DUN-DUN duhDUN-DUN-DUN dun-dun-DUN-DUN duhduh-DUN dun-DUN
-- My head everytime I see this thread
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Post by Gamingdevil on May 2, 2019 6:17:53 GMT
As a Harby player, I hate the constant threat of Feedback from the Satyxis. With only 1 jack in the list, one that hangs back until the late game for that matter, I'm not sure how Feedback is relevant at all here.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 4, 2019 6:21:36 GMT
Got my ass handed to me again this weekend, so I still haven't figured it out. I'm thinking it will always come down to Skarre 1 with a number of Stalkers, the variable being how many.
So far I have tried Skarre 3 with 3 units of Trolls, tried both double Marauders and double Bloodgorgers, but with Awe, Martyrdom and the occasional Purification getting rid of Draconic Blessing and continuous fire alike, I just can't seem to kill anything worthwhile.
Tried Venethrax, but it trades very inefficiently and Mortality can't be everywhere at the same time, especially when you have to divide your attention between multiple small units and a handful of solos.
Tried Skarre 1 Dark Host with 4 Stalkers, which was honestly not as bad as I would think. It doesn't have all the tech of the Skarre 3 list and the Stalkers always trade down (and die to Champions), but between ignoring Awe and benefiting from Dark Guidance, hits are much more consistent. I won, but my opponent made a number of mistakes that he probably won't next time. Alternative would be to go all in on Stalkers and Deathbringers from Aiakos by going to Black Industries.
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Post by tiberius on Jun 4, 2019 10:28:39 GMT
I forget, does awe affect undead? If not then Skarre1 Dark Host would have been your best bet, with all the grievous wounds floating around with the 4 stalkers in your list. And the feat is just a massive threat and leaping gets around harbingers feat right? I need to pull up her card and look at it to see how the rules are worded.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 4, 2019 11:07:51 GMT
I forget, does awe affect undead? If not then Skarre1 Dark Host would have been your best bet, with all the grievous wounds floating around with the 4 stalkers in your list. And the feat is just a massive threat and leaping gets around harbingers feat right? I need to pull up her card and look at it to see how the rules are worded. All true, but those 4 Stalkers are all the Grievous Wounds available to the list, and I generally lose 1 before lines meet, because Champions of the Order of the Wall charge 15" under Crusader's Call and they routinely one shot a Stalker, or the fire gets them. I need to trade 2 others for the Monks, which is trading 16 points for 6. These solos are generally not hanging around other important models, so the Stalkers trade very badly. Leap does get around the feat, but you still need to be able to reach something with it, meaning you might still have to move into that POW 14.
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Post by custardboy on Jun 5, 2019 2:23:27 GMT
Stalkers walk and leap though, are you not playing with any terrain? Cryx is quite good into Harbinger. Whatever list with a couple of stalkers, desecrators, or Venethrax or Blood Witches can all make it manageable. Blood rain and Venom actually become relevant spells too.
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