Honestly, if they are good experienced players, they should give you advice on how to beat them. Noob-stomping is for losers, real gamers build the noobs up to be worthy opponents! I mean, you still lose, but you should ask for one or two tips after each game and be disappointed if they refuse.
Not quite a competitive player, yet, mostly because I don't have time to go to tournaments.
but are you finding utility with double ForgeSeers? Some games it is so nice to be able to fuel up jacks - in others I find them "meh". So, for example, you could keep one and then add in Ragman - who I find GOLD with Butcher3 because he can crank the damage and allow Butcher to get "more done with less" when he mulches a flank - providing additional focus to camp and, SOMETIMES, even allowing him to not have to feat to stay alive.)
Thanks. I've played a fair bit of B3 earlier in MK3, mostly versus Cygnar (there's a number of batreps on TheMightyDie YT channel) and this is by far the list I like most. I think it will do equally well into Cygnar because their shooting isn't as good as CG (although Sloan might be an exception but I'm not sure, that's a while ago).
I do really like the idea of Ragman, mostly because of the same reason I like double Forgeseers. It requires less pre-planning. I find myself wanting to start the assassination run or a big flank clear and realize Silence of Death is still on another model, like a Marauder. Having to then spend the two focus to get it on Butcher is a little painful and for big clears or assassination it then means you have to feat to get enough attacks in. So having Ragman for almost the same effect is great! My second most common opponent plays Trolls, however, so SoD is so much better. Rolling tough on Bears is the worst thing in the world, i hate them so much. Still, I could leave SoD on B3 and Ragman can provide the +2 on Jacks to crack ARM.
Like I said, the double Forgeseers I like to the same reason. Although the army plays pretty compact, except for the Devs that might have to go a bit wider depending on scenario, having one Seer on each flank offers a lot of utility. The Devs can still get a focus from them to run on the flank, outside of B3's control, trample, or boost the attack roll on a head butt. The occasional extra focus on Sorscha's Beast helps so he can be full and Sorscha can still upkeep FoW and cast 1 BC. I just found it very helpful to have the extra focus to play with across my army.
Like you said, Butcher can get more done with less and the same applies to the double Seers (and the Adjunct of course). I *think* that I still prefer the Seers because they support the low maintenace Dev tactic and generally Butcher has little problem killing what needs to be killed. Having that said though, I do want to try it out, especially if I run into more "SOD is on the wrong model" syndrome. Thanks for the tip!
Ah, I misread Ragmans effect. He actually has to be within 3" of the model thats about to attack, on a SPD 6" model.
I think thats a bit too tricky to apply when you have Butcher charging 14-17" across the board.
How has your experience been playing with this?
You use the B3+ Rags combo for more of a counter punch (the Pull-o-matic slice and dice machine). THe idea is to get your opponent to commit heavily to removing at least 1 if not 2 jacks.
When they do Rags activates first. Important to remember how it works because his deathfield actually extends out fairly fair (3 inches to back of Butchers base and then Butchers reach from the front of his).
Butcher then impending Doom's those enemy things. He pulls them into reach. Then he takes his initial. Then he stars buying flashing blades that hit multiple heavies - all ARM -2. If he upkept SoD it is a 4 armor swing (effective pow 20 WM). What we are trying to do here is minimize the number of FB that have to be bought - because in an ideal world we do NOT want to have to feat and can "hold that" for another turn.