|
Post by deathbymelancholy on Apr 15, 2019 17:56:35 GMT
So in an attempt to keep us focused and as unsalted as possible, I'm bringing a specific issue out of our more general conversation.
What are you doing against Devourer's Tharn, are you having any success, even if not have you found a tool that seems to help to any degree?
I've tried guns in Grissel2 with BoH backup, mass body weapon masters with Madrak2 (Blood fury) in both SotN and BoH, and beast brick Wintry Borka2. I think I am yet to win a game. In my defense the local circle guy is very good, only plays circle, and has done so for many years.
Madrak2 gave me the closest game, but one f'ing Ravager goes ham with grievous and overtake and its over.
So. What are you doing? Is it successful? Any tools that did good work regardless of win/loss?
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Apr 15, 2019 18:40:51 GMT
The Madrak2 netlist was specifically designed to counter Tharn (and Primal Terrors). Haven't tried that matchup myself yet, so don't know how it plays out.
I played SotN into Tharn the first handfull of times. Either Madrak1 or Kolgrimma. Madrak lost a lot on scenario with his slow champs and a Glacier king. Kolgrima did moderately better. Sprays are decent at clearing ravagers. But bloodtrackers and lord of the feast are a big issue, so my answer now is Grim2 in KC. Haven't tried against Circle yet, but my theory is this: Tharns weakness is guns. Mage sight allows me to scalpel out lord of the feast. Feat lets me get the alpha safely. Mortality shuts down the healing. All good in the hood. They most likely will drop their second list in this case, which will be Wurmwood or Krueger2 probably. Mage sight takes care of the wurmwood matchup, Krueger is a potential issue though, but haven't seen him for a while.
Which caster(s) does he run with the list? I see Iona, Morvahna, Baldur mostly.
|
|
joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
|
Post by joedj on Apr 15, 2019 19:20:47 GMT
Yeah, that Grievous/Overtake/Corpse mechanic is nasty, kinda like Madrak2 before they modified his Feat away from him. (Funny how PP could almost add it back. ref: Tharn/Makeda3) My Madrak2/BoH list uses a min unit of Warders to limit the teleport of LotF. Surround a Shield Guard and transfer the shot to the SG model, even via daisy chain if necessary, with no place for LotF's base to be placed. But experienced players are difficult to lure into that, yet even that is an element to control LotF. Madrak2, alas doesn't have a good method of sniping out LotF or other UAs, solos. So it's an attrition game that favors volume of attacks, i.e. model placement and limiting first strike total losses is a must. Beware of Ambushers with GW, premeasure from-the-sides attack distances. Double Fenns/UAs, double Fell Callers (how I hate spam, but, when in Rome). I'm not completely enamored with the list, as it doesn't have a MAT 7 reach warbeast to really love the Feat, for me DEF 13 opposing warriors are seen often. Thus perhaps why some advocate Longriders. Is it successful? Less than 50%, but that is better than others I've tried. (side note: - At a recent tournament our competitive players went to, the EO's were handing out 'LotF threat range gauges' (after Raven teleport). They brought back extras for us )
|
|
jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
|
Post by jarrow on Apr 16, 2019 5:40:03 GMT
But bloodtrackers and lord of the feast are a big issue, so my answer now is Grim2 in KC. Haven't tried against Circle yet, but my theory is this: Tharns weakness is guns. Mage sight allows me to scalpel out lord of the feast. Feat lets me get the alpha safely. Mortality shuts down the healing. All good in the hood. They most likely will drop their second list in this case, which will be Wurmwood or Krueger2 probably. Mage sight takes care of the wurmwood matchup, Krueger is a potential issue though, but haven't seen him for a while Grim2 is also my current answer to tharns, but have not had time to play it yet. But I played it against wurmwood that that is quite good matchup although strangle hold really hurt HHH and GK. (as circle can easily cast it multiple times so 50-50 is not that bad) But I think biggest problem with Tharns is that learning curve is really hard. Same as Northkin bears used to have, but even worse. Especially Lord of the feast, but also ravagers have so much potential if opponent allows them to use it. Bad positioning means losing half of your army, but after you understand how they work, they are not over powered. (But I still think LotF should not be able to charge and shoot bird)
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by whydak on Apr 16, 2019 5:49:04 GMT
I'm trying to find sollution. So far I maanged to try twice into Ione led by one of top players. I played Kolgrima in BoH and Madrak 2 in BoH. I'm inexperience with Trolls so I keep making mistakes but both games felt quite uphill. After Iona feat I managed to kill full units of ravagers with single long rider with war cry and blood fury. But I got single one His threat range advantage is big and Iona can push you out of scenaro. I think Madrak in BoH is walking on the edge with scenario loose or getting alphaed out of table. I felt much more comfortable with Kolgrima. But I like her more in Storm. Tough choices. Maybe I need to play madrak 2 in storm and count that he will fail tough checks
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 16, 2019 6:48:29 GMT
I could be missing something, but how is a Ravager getting Grievous Wounds?
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by whydak on Apr 16, 2019 6:58:53 GMT
I could be missing something, but how is a Ravager getting Grievous Wounds? They can't get it. You can get greviouss from Blood Weavers, LoTF. Gallovs Grove and Mortality from Morvhanna 1 also denies healing. But I never heard of Ravagers with Grevoiuss
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Apr 16, 2019 7:49:47 GMT
My get feelings would be Grissel1, Madrak1, Calandra in either BoH or SoTN for high armour and durable troops.
I have had quite a bit of success with Doomy1 into Iona DH and would encourage you all to do the same. Iona has 3 upkeeps that she really needs out on the table. Doomy has a 14-16 inch Disillusion spell depending on whether your taking a runebearer or not. I have found that spell combined with Doomy1 Feat to really hamper her ability to ramp her army up to 11.
Thoughts?
|
|
jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
|
Post by jarrow on Apr 16, 2019 8:02:54 GMT
My get feelings would be Grissel1, Madrak1, Calandra in either BoH or SoTN for high armour and durable troops. I have had quite a bit of success with Doomy1 into Iona DH and would encourage you all to do the same. Iona has 3 upkeeps that she really needs out on the table. Doomy has a 14-16 inch Disillusion spell depending on whether your taking a runebearer or not. I have found that spell combined with Doomy1 Feat to really hamper her ability to ramp her army up to 11. Thoughts? Doomy1 is definitely casters we should test and play more. He was player on MK2 a lot because good theme, but as PoD that marks that theme is nothing like the old one people have trashed him. He has really good spell list and while Dissolution is not purification, it's still good. Stranglehold is one of the best missiles on whole game and Rampager is situational and expensive but game-braking spell. RÖK+goad sound tempating, but BoH would be better theme against Tharns. Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Doomshaper 1] Hoarluk Doomshaper, Shaman of the Gnarls [+29] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Rök [19] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Feralgeist [2] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Apr 16, 2019 8:10:56 GMT
Rok+Goad is GOLDEN. Plus you can primal him because you can choose his primal target the next turn.
Seriously, do we all have time to talk abut our lord and saviour Doomy1? :-)
|
|
|
Post by dickovdk on Apr 16, 2019 11:17:21 GMT
Love that Doomy1 list However fire eaters while good is hard to get maximize out of. For funzies I through maybe Brun and Lug. Brun score flags with snowdrift concealment and his upkeep up making him really hard to remove. Lug countercharge and score on rectangular zones. That would really bring something different 😁
|
|
|
Post by deathbymelancholy on Apr 16, 2019 11:17:36 GMT
Rok+Goad is GOLDEN. Plus you can primal him because you can choose his primal target the next turn. Seriously, do we all have time to talk abut our lord and saviour Doomy1? :-) If he is a tool that we can use and maybe even answer some other current popular armies or themes out there, then by all means.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Apr 16, 2019 13:38:18 GMT
As a tharn player i do not want to be out threated by accurrate attacks. Fennblades and longriders in BoH sound scary, but i have not actually faced either due to a small meta where i was the only troll player 🤣
|
|
|
Post by deathbymelancholy on Apr 16, 2019 14:28:36 GMT
As a tharn player i do not want to be out threated by accurrate attacks. Fennblades and longriders in BoH sound scary, but i have not actually faced either due to a small meta where i was the only troll player 🤣 I think the accurate part may be a touch overstated, and god forbid you miss and they can dodge. I actually brought the Kithkar out of mothballs for a bit to help out. Although I do agree that BoH has given me my closest games thus far. I'm somewhat intrigued by a Doomie, maybe build him in a Grymkin-esque way? They have slow no pathfinder heavies and do OK, although they have an entirely different toolbox. So far my lists aren't anything i don't immediately trash though. To answer someone earlier, my primary opponent plays the Iona version and Morv2, and I'm not sure which I fear most. (Probably Iona, but we're really splitting hairs).
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Apr 16, 2019 14:29:05 GMT
As a tharn player i do not want to be out threated by accurrate attacks. Fennblades and longriders in BoH sound scary, but i have not actually faced either due to a small meta where i was the only troll player 🤣 Trollock do you have bloodtrackers, bloodpack, wolf solo/unit or LotF in your list? Any of that can easily remove the fennblades at which point the toughaloes are forces to split up due to scenario and starts to get picked off. (A ravager statisticly oneshots a longrider with no stone aura on charge)
|
|