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Post by gobber on Apr 17, 2019 4:20:59 GMT
Stryker is very much at odds with Cygnaran leadership right now. He is no longer Lord General, that honor belongs to Magnus. I think you'd be correct if we were talking Cygnar under Leto's leadership. Also, the whole point of the Morrowan and Thamarite religion is that the twins are two sides of a coin. Benevolence and selfishness aren't mutually exclusive, and I think once Infernals present themselves as an existential threat to both sides of their religion we'll see a lot of unlikely allies popping up. It would not shock me to see the list include lots of cygnaran options during development, but it would also not shock me to see Morrowan Khadorans as part of the theme as well. It would also not shock me if Cygnar was left out because Julius and Magnus's ambitions, and as a result the majority of the Cygnaran militaries priorities, do not line up with the Church's. Where did you read that Stryker is no longer Lord General? Up to the last published book he still was Lord General and Magnus was Major (that Stryker himself demoted due to the use of the chemical weapons against Khador). Did they published someting new about that, or you just remembered wrong? Stryker doesn't get along as well with Julius as it used to get along with Leto, but his Rank (barring new published material that I don't know of) didn't changed and he is still at the head of Cygnar military and totally loyal to it (a phrase said to convince Ashlyn of his good faith doesn't change that Stryker is a paragon Cygnar patriot). Julius and Magnus ambitions putting them at odds with the church is something that is also not hinted anywere. Actually, Leto is still the first minister of Cygnar and Leto is still very close to the head of the church. Also, as far as atrocities go, Khador makes atrocities an art (Doomreavers, the wipe of an entire city to kill Stryker, the same chemical weapons used by Magnus actually being deployed by Khador, Strakov trying to use a volcano to destroy a city to kill the resistance and cover his own tortures of the Crucible Guard head, ecc...). The morrowan church joining forces with Khador instead of their historical ally (Cygnar) wouldn't make a grain of sense. Both because Khador is way more ruthless than Julius will ever be, and because there is no reason to do so (even more if Khador actually joines forces with Protectorate as it seems). Honestly, all this "Morrowan Church should join Khador and not Cygnar" seem interely made up without any basis, just to try to justify a PP choice that is clearly against exstabilished fluff AND past marketing choices (shifting morrowan models from Cygnar models that work also with mercs to Merc models that also work with Cygnar) that created expectations in the customers. Stryker promotes Magnus back up to Commander at the end of AoW2. He's not remembering wrong. Sure, Stryker's a patriot but his loyalty is more to the concept of a goody-two-shoes Cygnar and its people than any individual political figure like Julius. His moral compass and Cygnaran patriotism are coming into conflict; he'll surely try to maintain both but his conversation with Ashlynn and doubts about Julius/Magnus suggest if he had to pick one, it'd be the moral compass. None of that is to say he's not patriotic; he seems to view it as his patriotic duty to follow his morals. It definitely doesn't seem like a empty reassurance to Ashlynn though: "'I will do all in my power to ensure Llael remains a sovereign nation, even if it means defying my king.' / And it will almost certainly mean that. Magnus' expression was inscrutable, dangerous." Two pages later he's worried about being removed from command if they proceed with the siege of Merywyn ("There was every chance Stryker would be removed from his command"), which suggests he might be in a tenuous position in the next book but is still managing to thread the needle for now. Nobody's saying the Sancteum would join Khador and not Cygnar, you're misreading us again. Just that we may see Khadoran Morrowans join the Flame in the Darkness army/theme as there is a significant presence of that faith in Khador which we might finally see reflected in game. If they are going to do that, there is a sensible argument to keep Flame in the Darkness as a Merc-primary theme (and as I argued previously, give Cygnar its own separate Morrowan infantry focused theme in the future, potentially as part of an Order of Illumination release cycle or subfaction).
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 17, 2019 10:49:16 GMT
we got boned, accept it. No point in playing with a 2 and a half year old "codex", and PP doesn't give a damn about it. They just want to sell some new merc models.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Apr 17, 2019 11:26:38 GMT
Speaking of khadoran morrowans, what about khadoran thamarites. It's strongly implied that Zerkovah is a thamarite in the fluff. If they are going to give the Morrowan tag to more models, maybe they will also do the same for the Thamarite tag?
Also, why the hell does Alexia not have the thamarite tag?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 17, 2019 12:25:31 GMT
I believe Alexia is not actually a Thamarite, she just got her hands on a cursed sword? Haven't actually read the relevant novels but that was my understanding.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Apr 17, 2019 15:08:41 GMT
I believe Alexia is not actually a Thamarite, she just got her hands on a cursed sword? Haven't actually read the relevant novels but that was my understanding. I just took a look at her backstory and apprently she isn't one indeed, at least there is no direct reference to it in any form. Weird as I always had her etched in my head as one, seeing how the Thamarite Advocate class in the RPG seems to take a lot from her in form in terms of playstyle. Edit: Well there goes my dream of a recursion based Precursor list.
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Post by gobber on Apr 17, 2019 18:03:44 GMT
Flame in the Darkness is the same faction as the caster; Cygnar if Stryker, Jakes or Maddox, Merc if Ashlynn Fiona or Crosse, Khador if Zerkova. Connie gets to choose between Cygnar and Merc versions of the theme. All tourney pairings must still fall within one faction.
2 noncharacter khador or cygnar jacks allowed in your battlegroup, eg Stryker can run juggernauts
Full benefits:
• Non-character Mercenary warjacks
• Up to two non-character Cygnar or Khador warjacks
• Gallant
• Alexia models/units (there's a new Alexia who creates shield guard thralls)
• Morrowan models/units (now includes Jakes1, and a bunch of new stuff in the attachment including Cygnar's first heavy infantry, a MHSF-like unit, a recurring undead unit, some support stuff including the likely-to-change battle priest attachment that hands out true sight to any cygnar unit, and a likely-to-change solo that basically has a telekinesis gun)
• Thamarite models/units (now includes Devil's Shadow Mutineers)
• Field Mechanik units
• Hermit of Henge Hold
Special Rules
• All models in an army made using this theme force are considered to be of the same Faction as the
warcaster in this army.
• For every full 20 points of units and solos in this army, you can one command attachment, three
Morrowan Battle Priest weapon attachments, or one small or medium-based solo to the army free of cost.
Free models do not count toward the total point value of solos or units in the army when calculating this
bonus.
• Units in this army gain Vengeance. (During your Maintenance Phase, if one or more models in a unit with
Vengeance were damaged by enemy attacks during the last round, each model in the unit can advance 3˝
and make one basic melee attack.)
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Lbofun
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 59
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Post by Lbofun on Apr 17, 2019 19:27:43 GMT
Juggernaut would be cool, but what about a devastator with Stryker on feat turn being arm 31!
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Post by Deadneck on Apr 17, 2019 22:17:04 GMT
Just to clarify for anyone wondering, if you run Flame in the Darkness as a Cygnar theme, you still take a merc battlegroup with up to 2 Cygnar or Khador jacks.
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Post by mydnight on Apr 18, 2019 3:06:28 GMT
Just to clarify for anyone wondering, if you run Flame in the Darkness as a Cygnar theme, you still take a merc battlegroup with up to 2 Cygnar or Khador jacks. I wish nomads were still 11 points ....
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 18, 2019 3:07:09 GMT
Flame in the Darkness is the same faction as the caster; Cygnar if Stryker, Jakes or Maddox, Merc if Ashlynn Fiona or Crosse, Khador if Zerkova. Connie gets to choose between Cygnar and Merc versions of the theme. Is this homebrew or was this just announced somewhere an I missed it?
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Post by fanbloodytastic on Apr 18, 2019 4:43:51 GMT
These rules are from the Oblivion CID which went live today.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 18, 2019 7:00:11 GMT
Ah, cool! That's great!
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Post by Aegis on Apr 19, 2019 5:54:00 GMT
Stryker is very much at odds with Cygnaran leadership right now. He is no longer Lord General, that honor belongs to Magnus. Where did you read that Stryker is no longer Lord General? ... Did they published someting new about that, or you just remembered wrong? Stryker promotes Magnus back up to Commander at the end of AoW2. He's not remembering wrong. He said that Stryker is no longer Lord General and Magnus is, so he IS remembering wrong. Stryker is still Lord General, and Magnus is Commander who is few ranks under Lord General. That said, we have now the theme pubblished, and it's also a Cygnar theme like it should have been, so no point in discussing this further.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Apr 19, 2019 8:33:13 GMT
In todays update in CID the morrow theme has been changed from cygnar/khador/merc to merc only.
The new text in the theme is:
The old one was:
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 19, 2019 10:21:21 GMT
Wait, does that mean it can't be run under any Khador or Cygnar casters, or you can but they count as Mercs? Because if it's the former then that sucks, and if it's the latter then do you still get two non-character warjacks from Khador or Cygnar?
Obviously it takes the list out of the equation for two+ list events either way, but it's still "Khador-adjacent" at least if you can still run it with some of our casters and jacks.
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