shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 1, 2019 16:44:36 GMT
Hey all, I started painting my minis a couple of months ago, beginning with craft paints on bare plastic and slowly moving on to proper mini paints and actually priming my minis. Helynna was drawn exclusively with craft paints, the manticore has a bit of craft in it (mostly the pure white highlights), and the trolls as well as the decimator were painted with proper P3/coat d'arms paints. - EDIT: I'm gonna start writing my recipes here from now on. I can never properly remember them, and wracking my brain every time I pick up the brush is a serious pain. ----- Troll skin: turquoise - CdA Hawk Turquoise / HT + Menoth highlight / HT + skorne red normal - Trollblood base / TBB + Menoth highlight / TBB + skorne dark - CdA Fester Blue / FB + menoth highlight / FB + CdA red brown Gator skin - CdA green grey + wurm green / GG+WG+ menoth highlight / green grey + Coal Black eyes - coal black/coal black+pure black shadows - Sulfuric Yellow dots Backplates - Gnarls green / Gnarls+ menoth white / Gnarls + coal black/pure black tongue - midlund flesh + flesh wash / midlund flesh Gobber skin - ? lost, will have to test CdA grass green(?) / grass green + CdA oriental flesh / grass green + Gnarls Green (+coal black?) Skorne skin - studio scheme from the introduction booklet Trog skin - Rucksack tan / RT + menoth highlight / RT + CdA horse tone bay / (maybe Idrian Flesh for darkest points?)
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fanguad
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by fanguad on Apr 1, 2019 17:17:47 GMT
Looks like you're off to a good start!
I am partial to Khador so I like the Decimator, but my favorite part is the tartan you've painted on the troll's sash.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 1, 2019 17:47:11 GMT
Your work is very clean and controlled! That's not easy, I'm always struggling to get neat boundries myself. Good colour choices, amd you've even got some great detail work, like the Tartans! I would say your models are a good tabletop level overall. Now you eant to focus on pushing the contrast levels with deeper shades and brighter highlights.
Also maybe stay away from large areas of white and yellow for now; those colours are a pain to paint.
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Post by Trollock on Apr 2, 2019 10:35:31 GMT
Well done!
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 2, 2019 17:35:54 GMT
Hey guys, Thanks for the encouragement. It's funny that you mention the tartans, because I consider the Fennblade leader's Tartan my least succesful attempt, owing to it also being the first. @samurai - do you think I should increase the contrast on all of the miniatures? on the decimator in particular, I stopped where I did since I've seen that a lot of artists tend to have very agressive color changes between the highlight and shade, and I honestly think it'd look godawful on the decimator. I've blended pure Ember Orange and for the top highlights, and Ember orange mixed with Light Gray (d'arms) and pure Light Gray for the edge highlights. For shading I used some type of blue (I'm leaning towards Fester Blue, but I'm honestly not sure), but again I didn't want to push it too hard as I used PP's older Juggernaut chassis pics for reference, and if you look at those you'll notice they've used a massive amount of blue for the shading, and it just looks off. Do you guys think it could work better if I mixed some brown into the shade color, or straight up just shade brown? Regarding avoiding the whites, that's not really an option, seeing as I've got a sizable force of Ret still waiting to be painted. plus: a WIP group shot of the Fennblades and my first painted model.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 2, 2019 17:51:56 GMT
I've also got a couple of questions about paints and recipes for you guys.
Have any of you tried Scale75 paints? I ordered a couple just to see what they feel like, and they're pretty abysmal IMHO. I've used their Heavy Metal for all of the steel in the pics, but it really feels like painting with a shitty wash more than a proper layer paint. They also cost me about 6$ each from where I get them, so for me that's an absolute, total no go. There's also a shop not that far from my place that sells GW paints, but they cost 5$ for paints and 10$ for washes (which is cheaper than in australia, apparently!), and I'm incredibly suspicious of them from all of the rock bottom reviews, particularly paint drying before even being opened.
speaking of metallics: the ones I own right now are SC75 Heavy Metal+Speed Metal, P3 Molten Bronze, and coat d'arms Dwarven Bronze (and beaten copper, but I'm not sure if that one's actually metallic.) I've ordered CdA's chainmail and brass as part of a lot, do you guys have any experience with those? so far Dwarven Bronze has proven to be pretty neat, although it lacks the girth coverage of Molten Bronze.
Looking at some of the studio pics for retribution models, I can't help but feel like they've switched their recipe for the whites at some point. It might be just down to lighting, but it feels less blue leaning and more yellow leaning to me. I'd ask on the official forums, but the 'ask the studio' thread has been quiet for almost half a year now.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 3, 2019 4:06:31 GMT
@samurai - do you think I should increase the contrast on all of the miniatures? on the decimator in particular, I stopped where I did since I've seen that a lot of artists tend to have very agressive color changes between the highlight and shade, and I honestly think it'd look godawful on the decimator. Obviously how much contrast to introduce is an aesthetic choice, there is no "wrong" answer so do what looks good to you. From what I've seen and heard it seems that new painters do tend to go light on contrast at first because it seems more natural or realistic, but then start to introduce more over time as they get used to the idea that contrast grabs the eye and makes the model pop. You could experiment on some test models if you're not sure, but again, do whatever looks good to you. Regarding avoiding the whites, that's not really an option, seeing as I've got a sizable force of Ret still waiting to be painted. What are you using for your base coat and highlight colours? Have any of you tried Scale75 paints? I ordered a couple just to see what they feel like, and they're pretty abysmal IMHO. I've used their Heavy Metal for all of the steel in the pics, but it really feels like painting with a shitty wash more than a proper layer paint. speaking of metallics: the ones I own right now are SC75 Heavy Metal+Speed Metal, P3 Molten Bronze, and coat d'arms Dwarven Bronze (and beaten copper, but I'm not sure if that one's actually metallic.) I've ordered CdA's chainmail and brass as part of a lot, do you guys have any experience with those? so far Dwarven Bronze has proven to be pretty neat, although it lacks the girth coverage of Molten Bronze. Maybe you just need to shake the bottle better (you might need to add an agitator to the bottle); I've had issues with paint consistency out of new bottles that I eventually realized was because the contents had "settled" a bit and I wasn't shaking aggressively enough, I was able to fix the problem by adding an agitator and shaking really hard. It might also be possible you just have a bad batch? Personally I only have a few Scale75 paints, all in their metallic range, and I didn't feel that they were too thin. Their "speedmetal" is the brightest silver I've ever seen. I haven't personally had any issues with GW paints and still use a bunch, plus I have a few P3 and they work well too (my P3 elf flesh seems smoother than my GW equivalent), but I mainly buy Vallejo these days as I've come to prefer dropper bottles (plus I can buy the same colour in regular and airbrush paints and not have to deal with thinning... what can I say, I'm lazy). BTW, what basecoats are you using for your metals? I always use brown under any warm metals; bronze, brass, gold; it all goes much better over brown than any other colour. I've tried reds and yellows, but somehow even gold works better over brown than over yellow.
I really like your blue Trollblood skin. It looks like you're painting a light blue first then going back and painting on the darker shades? I think people usually start with the mid colours and then highlight and shade OR start with the darkest colours and work up to the brightest.
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Post by Trollock on Apr 3, 2019 6:18:58 GMT
Just for the record, ret do not have to be white. My brother has a cool scheme that is blue and brown. Another gaming friend of mine has a bright orange/red scheme. I would personally love a scheme that looks like Protoss from Starcraft. No one is forcing you to paint your ret white if you do not want to
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 3, 2019 10:36:07 GMT
@soul - For the Manticore, I basecoated with around 6-7 thin layers of CdA's light grey, although I got impatient on the last layers and laid it on too thick. I shaded by blending in CdA uniform gray, and on the left (our right) shoulder I also mixed in some craft ochre. For highlights I used Amsterdam white, massively thinned down and blended as well as I could. I actually haven't tried undercoating bronze, P3's was so strong that it seemed superflous at the time. For the trollblood metal I undercoated with Dwarven Bronze, two coats, and then went over it with S75 heavy metal. The trollblood skin recipe is kind of a mess. -for the unfinished, unprimed fennblade in the back I just slathered on Cygnar Blue Highlight (had a huge spill and tried to use it in a panic) -The leader was the only model primed white, basecoated with very thin CBH, highlight and shading with Fester Blue, mixed with light gray / P3 red brown. -The finished grunts were basecoated fester blue, then I added highlight and shade. -the primed, unfinished bunch as well as the impaler got a solid basecoat of fester+red brown, then 1-2 layers of fester blue, avoiding the recesses, and then shading and highlights added. Trollock - I'm aware of that, but a big part of what got me into WMH in the first place is how beautiful the studio painted scyrah models are. I don't want to stray from the official scheme beyond playing around with the green glow on eavh house's equipment.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 3, 2019 11:20:07 GMT
You've got the right idea for white, using greys and working your way up, with pure white only being used for highlights. I'm surprised that it's taking you so many layers to establish your grey though. What colour is your primer?
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Post by Trollock on Apr 3, 2019 11:29:05 GMT
Trollock - I'm aware of that, but a big part of what got me into WMH in the first place is how beautiful the studio painted scyrah models are. I don't want to stray from the official scheme beyond playing around with the green glow on eavh house's equipment. Ah. I can understand that. They are pretty nifty
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fanguad
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by fanguad on Apr 3, 2019 12:12:23 GMT
Regarding contrast: In general, "too much" looks better. There are a few reasons for this: 1) chances are that you're painting in a reasonably well-lit area, with the miniature close to the lights. This will exaggerate the contrast that exists on the model, so when you put it in a "normal" environment it seems to lose a lot. 2) painters are generally uncomfortable adding contrast so will err on the side of "too little". If you look at your models and think they don't have enough, intentionally go a little out of your comfort zone next time. 3) too much contrast may look garish, but it will at least look like a thing with form and shape, whereas too little contrast leaves the mini looking like a nondescript blob of white/red/etc.
Regarding paints: I've used Scale75 and they're thicker than most other paints so you really need to shake the dickens out of them. My preferred paints are Reaper MSPs, but I also use P3 and Vallejo paints. I haven't really used GW, except for their washes which are fantastic.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 3, 2019 12:45:54 GMT
@soul - I primed the manticore black. Same for the decimator, I primed both of them several months ago before I knew how translucent the brighter paint tend to be. fanguad - You're probably right. Last night I noticed the contrast on the decimator almost completely disappears when it's in a dimly lit area. As much as I hate risking ruining the model, I'll try to go over it again when I find the time.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 3, 2019 13:46:42 GMT
Obviously grey or white primer would be better for painting white (or any bright colours really), or you might be able to find a coloured spray primer in your basecoat colour. An airbrush might make things easier too.
On the topic of contrasts, check out this fellow: under ideal conditions his highlights are so bright and sharp as to look clumsy:
This is what he looked like when photographed on a table:
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 3, 2019 14:27:44 GMT
Yea, I get the idea. I use my minis for tabletop only anyway, so it's not like display quality matters.
I'm still not set on primers. There's only one brand where I live, and each color has its own properties. The black primer is the highest quality, but is a pain to paint over. White has a really chalky finish, seems to really drink up the moisture from paints. So far I've found working with gray the easiest, but it really clogs up detail. Is that the same for the brands you use?
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