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Post by paradox on Mar 31, 2019 0:49:21 GMT
Where do you see this master, as CID left things? Having played both Zaateroth and Omodamos under Week 3.2, Im deeply concerned. Zaateroth was already strong, and Week 3.3 just gave her crazy buffs (with a minor change I dontvlike, but no less powerful). Omodamos utterly disappointed me. In fact, he failed in his role as a combat master completely. Whereas Id feel pretty comfy with the buffs/debuffs Zaateroth can swing. She wont do the melee herself, but runs a FAR better melee line list.
I can’t speak directly to Agathon, but it simply got better, too. As strong as Omodamos started the cycle, it seems hes ended it that weak. A 3-master limited faction with one dead choice leads to auto-pairings, and thats just crappy.
How do folks feel at this stage?
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Post by jojobrunnix on Mar 31, 2019 6:03:28 GMT
to repeat my points from the discussion we had on the cid forums: he does one thing better than the other two: big brawls in the middle. synergy and locked horns make his battle group (and the howlers in front of it) the most durable and hard hitting of the 3 masters. he also has the easiesr to use soul collection i agree with you that he is all in all the weakest of the 3. but if you drop him into matchups where his kit realy shines he will smash faces. hard.
for me he will allways be the second list in a pairing. untill we kbow more about hod at least
cheers
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Post by paradox on Apr 1, 2019 1:52:52 GMT
to repeat my points from the discussion we had on the cid forums: he does one thing better than the other two: big brawls in the middle. synergy and locked horns make his battle group (and the howlers in front of it) the most durable and hard hitting of the 3 masters. he also has the easiesr to use soul collection i agree with you that he is all in all the weakest of the 3. but if you drop him into matchups where his kit realy shines he will smash faces. hard. for me he will allways be the second list in a pairing. untill we kbow more about hod at least cheers Im not sure Zaateroth doesnt just do big melee brawls better.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Apr 1, 2019 21:08:56 GMT
It felt like his design hinged on you jamming for a couple turns while you made horrors, fully loaded them with essence from cultists, and then having a crazy Synergy turn. It's not a style I'm fond of and I don't think that it's very good with the horrors. I was personally hoping that he would have some way to give all his horrors (and himself) overtake, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards for this faction.
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Post by zangetsu on Apr 1, 2019 21:22:48 GMT
I've played somewhere around 20 games with Infernals so far... Agathon and Zaateroth both sport some amazing kits that can do some big plays with a lot of subtlety mixed in. Omodamos, on the other hand, has the best soul engine that wants to play into match ups that can often have the fewest souls. His dependency on souls creates an anemic experience for most of the games I've had with him. There isn't anything that he does that Agathon or Zaateroth don't likely do as well or better.
He is the most dependent on Summoning and probably the worst at it, further adding to his feast-or-famine game. He needs a bit more nuance and efficiency. For example, Locked horns could use a little extra umph - Unyielding and Sturdy for the cost of 3 Essence. His control range is rather meager when it comes to getting the most out of his expensive signature spell that really only matters for Himself, Howlers, and his battle group.
Something to help him when he's not getting a shot at gathering souls would go a long ways to making him a stronger contender.
Ultimately, I don't think he'll change all that much and his appeal will be purely aesthetic.
As a small aside, I've only had him in melee once in the 7 games I have played with him and he didn't do much even then... He's so strapped most of the time his ability to do work is few and far between. 7 games is, by no means, exhaustive... but each game sheds more light on him feeling a bit incomplete.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Apr 7, 2019 16:42:03 GMT
I don’t like the look of him ruleswise. Will be playing Aggie and Zattie all the way.
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Post by paradox on Apr 8, 2019 0:06:05 GMT
I don’t like the look of him ruleswise. Will be playing Aggie and Zattie all the way. How would you fix him?
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 8, 2019 6:20:56 GMT
I think the largest problem with players using him and his toolkit lies with the "meta" playstyle that players have grown accustomed to.
I think as a heavy horror caster he is a trap due to the base spd 5 chasis. I know this sounds strange but he is best as using the soul stalker, lamentor, and freeboaters in synergy.
The speed of his army on feat turn is what you want to use to gain the alpha and it also extends his battlegroups personall reach
He works best with a less of the super suport mark souls solos but i feel it is by design.
But thats my oppinion
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Post by paradox on Apr 8, 2019 6:43:14 GMT
I think the largest problem with players using him and his toolkit lies with the "meta" playstyle that players have grown accustomed to. I think as a heavy horror caster he is a trap due to the base spd 5 chasis. I know this sounds strange but he is best as using the soul stalker, lamentor, and freeboaters in synergy. The speed of his army on feat turn is what you want to use to gain the alpha and it also extends his battlegroups personall reach He works best with a less of the super suport mark souls solos but i feel it is by design. But thats my oppinion Considering that many common lists still outthreat him even with his feat, I feel your assessment is dead wrong.
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 8, 2019 8:01:24 GMT
I think the largest problem with players using him and his toolkit lies with the "meta" playstyle that players have grown accustomed to. I think as a heavy horror caster he is a trap due to the base spd 5 chasis. I know this sounds strange but he is best as using the soul stalker, lamentor, and freeboaters in synergy. The speed of his army on feat turn is what you want to use to gain the alpha and it also extends his battlegroups personall reach He works best with a less of the super suport mark souls solos but i feel it is by design. But thats my oppinion Considering that many common lists still outthreat him even with his feat, I feel your assessment is dead wrong. Well then please name 3?
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Post by paradox on Apr 8, 2019 8:31:31 GMT
Considering that many common lists still outthreat him even with his feat, I feel your assessment is dead wrong. Well then please name 3? Under feat, tormentors and howlers threat 11” and 12”, respectively. The soul stalker threats 13”. So outside the soul stalker, uh, basically any list with a speed buff? And then the feated soul stalker equals virtually any heavy with a speed buffs, most being non-feats.
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 8, 2019 9:46:45 GMT
Under feat, tormentors and howlers threat 11” and 12”, respectively. The soul stalker threats 13”. So outside the soul stalker, uh, basically any list with a speed buff? And then the feated soul stalker equals virtually any heavy with a speed buffs, most being non-feats. I am going to be blunt. So can you name 3 armies currently played that out threat his lists? As you stated early "many common lists can out threat him". I asked you to name 3 common lists as i was curious but instead you deflected trying to go into statistical data. I generally wanted examples (data) otherwise i wil surmise that your data is based on only personal preference. Which is not bad. List of arctypes that out threat melee forces. Gun lines (garath 2, sons of the temple, makeda 3 double turtles) Spell slinging (rahn, absylonia 2[i think she is a spell killer) king of nothing) Calvary lists (cause most cav have 2 inch rch charges and are base speed 7) What lists specifically are you thinking?
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Apr 8, 2019 13:02:25 GMT
Rask threats further than 12" without too much trouble, but not on all beasties.
Xerxes2 threats far.
Abby2 can throw her heavies far as well, an extra +3" threat on the feat along with flight.
Child with heavies can do a lot and go far, abuse + potential place is good.
But in general, if you threat 12", that's far. That's a whole zone so that's sort of the minimum for a beast heavy list, unless it can take a beating like Khador or Grymkin where it's fine to threat 8-10".
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Post by paradox on Apr 8, 2019 19:02:41 GMT
Under feat, tormentors and howlers threat 11” and 12”, respectively. The soul stalker threats 13”. So outside the soul stalker, uh, basically any list with a speed buff? And then the feated soul stalker equals virtually any heavy with a speed buffs, most being non-feats. I am going to be blunt. So can you name 3 armies currently played that out threat his lists? As you stated early "many common lists can out threat him". I asked you to name 3 common lists as i was curious but instead you deflected trying to go into statistical data. I generally wanted examples (data) otherwise i wil surmise that your data is based on only personal preference. Which is not bad. List of arctypes that out threat melee forces. Gun lines (garath 2, sons of the temple, makeda 3 double turtles) Spell slinging (rahn, absylonia 2[i think she is a spell killer) king of nothing) Calvary lists (cause most cav have 2 inch rch charges and are base speed 7) What lists specifically are you thinking? Ill be blunt. Youre being needlessly obtuse.
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 8, 2019 20:35:10 GMT
paradox not really you need to answer questions when you post open ended statments like "many meta lists can..." So enough with your deflection and please give 3 examples of lists that out threat his playstyle specifically. I garentee you will be picking a gunline, spell line, calvarly specific build, or one specific build that is black industries or used scorn battle engines. All of whome the other two casters have advantage into to please elighten us on the forum. And thank you for your time in this request paradox. *bows politely*
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