shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 26, 2019 7:04:31 GMT
Hey all,
I got into warmahordes through the battleboxes and have slowly been expanding by buying whatever I could find secondhand or cheap. There's no players where I live, so I play with my family and friends, and obviously none of us know much about the game's balance.
We've got Trollbloods, Retribution and Skorne right now, and I've noticed skorne get consistently steamrolled by the other armies. Would getting Beast Masters fix this?
These are the pieces I own: Trolls- Ragnor Dire troll kit Earthborn Impaler+Axer+Bouncer Fennblades Kriel Warriors Krielstone Braylen
Skorne - Xekaar, Naaresh, Zaal, Morg1 Titan Gladiator Cyclops Savage+Raider+Shaman Agonizer Preatorian Swordsmen Willbreaker Marketh
Scyrah - Helynna, Garryth, Elara Manticore + Shyeel heavy Griffon + Chimera + Aspis DG Sentinels+CA DG Invictors+CA MHSF Arcanist×2 Ghost Sniper
Minions - Saxon and Croak Raiders
Thanks.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 26, 2019 9:35:57 GMT
I don't play Skorne, but I played against them quite a bit in MK2. I'm pretty sure Beastmasters should be in every single list; Skorne warbeasts are balanced around having acces to them. Having said that, I hear Skorne's strongest pieces in MK3 are the battle engines. I suggesting posting in the Skorne forums for more knowledgeable advice.
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petef
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Posts: 24
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Post by petef on Mar 26, 2019 10:21:21 GMT
Just looking quickly at your list of models, the Skorne only have one heavy and nothing else that hits that hard. The trolls have 2 heavies plus Ragnor's damage buff and your Ret has 2 heavies plus a weaponmaster unit. I often play a fair few sub-75 point games and I have usually found that if I only have 1 heavy and no weaponmasters then once you trade heavies with your opponent their other heavy can really boss the table, easily removing light etc. Is that what you have experienced?
So I would say yes, get some beastmasters but also a 2nd heavy kit of some description for your Skorne.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 26, 2019 11:12:24 GMT
Thanks for the responses. petef - we've only done 30pt games so far, and only with one heavy on each side, but it still usually comes down to skorne not dealing enough damage (and eating the alpha.) I think getting another Titan, Beastmasters, and the CA for the praetorians would be my best bet. That'd probably be enough to run a decent 50 point army for Naaresh and Morg, right?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 26, 2019 11:42:20 GMT
A Gladiator under Morghoul 1 should be very fast (12" threat range I think under Rush and Abuse?) and hit reasonably hard (P+S 18). The lights aren't bad either (something like 15" threat range?). Admonition should help reduce the severity of a melee alpha, as should the Agonizer (and possibly Morg's Feat if you use it a little aggressively). Add Beastmasters to that and the Gladiator should be able to one-round a heavy unless it's armour has been buffed to pretty high level. If the gladiator is not enough, then maybe you need a Bronzeback; one of the hardest hitting heavies in the game (under Beastmasters at least).
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Post by P'tit Nico on Mar 26, 2019 14:07:52 GMT
They're called Beast Handlers.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 26, 2019 14:23:08 GMT
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 26, 2019 18:03:49 GMT
They're called Beast Handlers. Thank you, I felt something was wrong but couldn't remember for sure so I just went with it.
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petef
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Posts: 24
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Post by petef on Mar 28, 2019 15:40:00 GMT
Yeah, I'm definitely no Skorne expert! I agree with Soul that Morghoul 1 with beast handlers is probably your best option, who ever is playing that though needs to be really careful with control area, easy to shoot a beast off out of control! Although I also still think a second Skorne heavy would be a good purchase alongside the beast handlers.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 28, 2019 22:47:32 GMT
I've got to admit, it never occurred to me to use admonition as an offensive tool. I'll definitely try it out or remind my opponent next time we play.
I don't have a proper game table yet, so it's gonna be a while before we start expanding to the higher point games, but do you guys these armies could face each on an even playing field? I could use proxies for any missing minis, but I'd prefer to avoid them as much as possible.
( also, a side note: how do I make folding spoiler text boxes? Is that option available on this forum? )
50 point armies:
Morghoul 1 +30
> Titan Gladiator -15 > Titan Gladiator -15 > Agonizer- 7 > Cyclops Shaman -8 > Cyclops Savage -7
Paingiver Beast Handlers -7 Praetorian Swordsmen (max) + CA - 17
Mortitheurge Willbreaker -4
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Elara 2 +28 > Phoenix -17 > Griffon -8 > Chimera -8
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) + CA -22 Dawnguard Invictors (max) + CA -19
Arcanist Mechanik x 2 -4
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Ragnor 1 +30
> Dire Troll Mauler -15 > Earthborn Dire Troll -14 > Troll Axer -10 > Troll Bouncer -9
Fennblades (max) -15 Northkin Fire Eaters - 7 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribe (max) - 9
(?) Gobber chef -1
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Mar 29, 2019 1:49:53 GMT
I would *really* like to see a unit attachment on those Fennblades, they are an entirely different unit with reposition 3" and the No Quarter mini-feat. They were my second unit, with attachment and solos (you don't need to worry about those much in mk III) and I have no regrets. I kinda think that my showing up with them might have chased all the light infantry out of my meta, because after about six months they had to work a lot harder to earn their points back, but they generally will.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 29, 2019 7:52:02 GMT
Hey all,
I've finally assembled a 4×4 board! It definitly feels a lot better than playing on the tiny battlebox mats.
I haven't been able to get in a lot of games lately, but in the few we did run (Ragnor vs Helynna) we've noticed that the trolls really struggle against the dawnguard. The dires just melt against sentinels, as do fennblades against invictors. Fennblades vs sents doesnt go over much better.
What answers do trolls have against them? They become a lot less impressive once feat and minifeat are over, but by that point the attrition game is already over.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 29, 2019 7:55:46 GMT
shmeep Heavies and lights alike will always melt against weapon master infantry. The thing you can do is either bring some anti-infantry tech of your own, such as Fenblades, or be smart about the piece trade. Put a couple of lights that you can afford to lose in threat range of the opposing infantry. If they take the bait, you can mop up with something like a Brawler, you might want to counter feat at this point. If they don't take the bait, perhaps they are now in range of your lights and you can move up the line of engagement. Warmachine is a game of piece trading, never put everything in range of your opponent and hope for the best. Some matches will be harder than others.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 29, 2019 8:05:45 GMT
shmeep Heavies and lights alike will always melt against weapon master infantry. The thing you can do is either bring some anti-infantry tech of your own, such as Fenblades, or be smart about the piece trade. Put a couple of lights that you can afford to lose in threat range of the opposing infantry. If they take the bait, you can mop up with something like a Brawler, you might want to counter feat at this point. If they don't take the bait, perhaps they are now in range of your lights and you can move up the line of engagement. Warmachine is a game of piece trading, never put everything in range of your opponent and hope for the best. Some matches will be harder than others. The trouble with the fennblades is that I've been consistently able to shred them with the invictors' minifeat. With over half the unit down they barely make a dent in the invictors afterwards. My brother's always too reserved with his feat, hasn't tried advancing agressively under it yet. That's been my general m.o with the sents, so I dunno how that'd play out. Are fenns really the best answer trolls have into dawnguard? I'll try out proxying the fenns' CA next time we play, might make a difference.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 29, 2019 8:07:26 GMT
Are fenns really the best answer trolls have into dawnguard? I'll try out proxying the fenns' CA next time we play, might make a difference. Not necessarily, but it depends on the caster. Ragnor can indeed be very aggressive on his feat turn, but outside that, he will still lose beasts left and right. Champions can also be effective tools, especially under Madrak 1 when it can be very difficult to get rid of them by a melee force.
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