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Post by michael on Mar 24, 2019 23:04:43 GMT
I am starting to suspect that WGI are surprisingly strong in CoI.
That is all.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Mar 25, 2019 2:37:02 GMT
I have found that the sprays are especially good.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 25, 2019 5:52:58 GMT
Tell me more...
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Post by michael on Mar 25, 2019 11:59:12 GMT
Basically two entire rounds of “For the Motherland” + Grape Shot can kill a bunch of dudes in this format...
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Post by michael on Mar 26, 2019 16:09:05 GMT
Also, I should probably play a scenario besides “Lost Patrol.”
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Post by Azahul on Mar 29, 2019 1:53:23 GMT
Thanks to the card mechanic, cheap infantry (ideally ones that don't reduce your hand size) usually make for a pretty strong foundation for a list  Stats can be something of a formality if you're pumped full of boost and additional dice cards, and the casualty roll mechanic plus Recover cards can bottleneck a lot of more elite companies. |
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Post by The Snark Knight on Mar 29, 2019 12:41:32 GMT
Also, Kovnik Joe reducing your hand size but having his own battle plans feels a little bit like cheating!
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Post by michael on Apr 10, 2019 16:59:10 GMT
I will add the following qualifiers to my original premise:
1) If your opponent runs a bunch of dudes into your For-the-Motherland Grapeshot minifeat kill box
and
2) If you can roll anything approximating average
and
3) On the right scenarios, those which force your opponent to run into the aforementioned WGI kill box
Because otherwise, that 2 or 3-card hand size is crippling against a mobile opponent with 5-6 cards.
I am not wholly convinced the 3-card penalty between Joe and the WGI Officer is warranted.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 10, 2019 18:57:57 GMT
Write up a battle report about the game where you discovered this weakness...
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Post by michael on Apr 11, 2019 16:33:39 GMT
Write up a battle report about the game where you discovered this weakness... Scenario #6, in which I faced a Circle Orboros Bloodtrackers + LoTF army with a hand size of 6 who was playing the defender, with the ability to simply run one of his SPD 7 Stealth models to the opposite side of the map and, for all intents and purposes, insta-win. It was lame. I was going to lose, but the fact that I lost Grapeshot after something like 8 good Assault (!) Grapeshot sprays on the thing that eventually killed my WGI Officer just sealed the deal. At that point it was me with one or two cards and no boosts/additional dice trying to WGI melee severely spread out Bloodtrackers + LotF to death. Good luck with that, MAT 5! |
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Post by Azahul on Apr 11, 2019 23:28:01 GMT
Scenario 6 is kind of horrifically unbalanced, honestly. You only need to look at the win conditions to see why. The Attacker has to wipe out the Defender in five turns. The Defender can wipe out the attacker, or just last five turns. Both armies are the same size. There's no logical reason the Defender should find wiping out the attacker any more difficult than vice versa, but they also just have an additional win condition.
On top of that you have the deployment issues, where the Defender begins the game in a fortified position, while the Attacker has their forces split across the table edges. Sure, the Attacker might get the occasional back strike bonus, but that's often cancelled out by making it impossible to affect more than half your army with a Battle Plan on any given turn, while the Defender will get Cover against one flank thanks to their free wall and should have an easier time getting all their models to use critical Battle Plans.
I've played that scenario as the Defender with two players serving as allied attackers (40 points versus 20 points). I still won, but it went right down to the wire with my last model surviving the last attack on Turn 5 using a Recover card. Two smaller attackers against a slightly bulked up defender (40 points versus 25 points) is probably about the right ballpark to make the scenario work. The whole "Last Stand" idea really needs something to put the Defender under pressure, because as written it's pretty laughable. But that said, the two vs one game is an absolute blast and remains one of my favourite Company of Iron games ever played.
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Post by michael on Apr 12, 2019 0:59:29 GMT
Scenario 6 is kind of horrifically unbalanced, honestly. You only need to look at the win conditions to see why. The Attacker has to wipe out the Defender in five turns. The Defender can wipe out the attacker, or just last five turns. Both armies are the same size. There's no logical reason the Defender should find wiping out the attacker any more difficult than vice versa, but they also just have an additional win condition. On top of that you have the deployment issues, where the Defender begins the game in a fortified position, while the Attacker has their forces split across the table edges. Sure, the Attacker might get the occasional back strike bonus, but that's often cancelled out by making it impossible to affect more than half your army with a Battle Plan on any given turn, while the Defender will get Cover against one flank thanks to their free wall and should have an easier time getting all their models to use critical Battle Plans. I've played that scenario as the Defender with two players serving as allied attackers (40 points versus 20 points). I still won, but it went right down to the wire with my last model surviving the last attack on Turn 5 using a Recover card. Two smaller attackers against a slightly bulked up defender (40 points versus 25 points) is probably about the right ballpark to make the scenario work. The whole "Last Stand" idea really needs something to put the Defender under pressure, because as written it's pretty laughable. But that said, the two vs one game is an absolute blast and remains one of my favourite Company of Iron games ever played. You know what? That’s a good idea. I knew #6 was broken going in, but still...  I would have had a VERY different game if I had either won the roll and gotten to choose Defender, or if my I-get-to-go-first Mortar Crew had managed to hit ANYTHING AT ALL while I was trying to land an AOE that would have hit probably 8 of his 10 models straight away. Seriously: I blew a boost on the attack roll, and failed to roll what I needed for the deviation distance despite three (!) attempts (original and two rerolls). It was really dumb. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 13, 2019 20:22:50 GMT
I feel like for any unbalanced scenario you should play it twice swapping roles in between. Declare whoever does the "best" (your standards may vary, discuss before the first game) the winner, or just don't bother about who won.
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Post by michael on Apr 14, 2019 12:18:44 GMT
I feel like for any unbalanced scenario you should play it twice swapping roles in between. Declare whoever does the "best" (your standards may vary, discuss before the first game) the winner, or just don't bother about who won. What bothered me is that the game was simply no contest, not that I lost. My only chances to even possibly win hinged on that Mortar hitting turn 1 (it didn’t, but I tried as hard as I could!) or me being the Defender. I still can’t fathom how the Lord of the Feast is a 0-card adjustment. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 14, 2019 15:02:20 GMT
I feel like for any unbalanced scenario you should play it twice swapping roles in between. Declare whoever does the "best" (your standards may vary, discuss before the first game) the winner, or just don't bother about who won. What bothered me is that the game was simply no contest, not that I lost. My only chances to even possibly win hinged on that Mortar hitting turn 1 (it didn’t, but I tried as hard as I could!) or me being the Defender. I still can’t fathom how the Lord of the Feast is a 0-card adjustment. so are the bears in the trollblood theme. It's crazy, but what can you do? |
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Stats can be something of a formality if you're pumped full of boost and additional dice cards, and the casualty roll mechanic plus Recover cards can bottleneck a lot of more elite companies.