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Post by phobus on Apr 19, 2017 1:38:41 GMT
So I've been looking at Krueger 2 lately thinking that there has to be a list that works with him but have been coming up short. With fury 7, Telekinesis, Gallows, and a nice control feat he has a lot of tools to work with. The first problem I'm running into is that he has no defensive or offensive buffs. When I try and run more beasts to compensate I end up without enough fury management for them. Here is the list I have so far:
Krueger 2
Megalith
Woldwarden
2x Stalkers
Gorax
Wayfarer
Gallows grove
Shifting stones
2x Sentry stones
Gobber chef
I was hoping to use megs and warden to casts spells especially telekinesis for threat extension. Between telekinesis and hunters mark the Stalkers can threaten 15" (17" if the target is also hit with telekinesis). Ideally they get the alpha, sprint back and Krueger pops feat to keep the enemy front line out of range to retaliate (~11" away with a speed debuff).
Is this viable or is there a better way? The gobber chef and manikins can do a lot for fury but this list would be running pretty hot fury wise. Should I look at the minion lesser warlocks possibly? Rorche and Brine especially would have a long threat range with Krueger. What are your all's thoughts?
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Post by sirk on Apr 19, 2017 11:20:24 GMT
You have a good overall approach on how the list should work, on most of which I agree.
Going specifically on your composition, I would try a couple of changes.
Loki instead of 2nd Stalker.
He can work in a pretty similar way on the feat turn you describe, and at the same time he offers you so many tricks and tools that perfectly fit your play strategy. Shield Guard is nice to have, as it's Dodge and arm19, but it's the drag the real shine. With TK (or double TK), stone teleport and drag you have an incredible non-linerar casterkill menace that your opponent will have to work around.
Anything else instaed of Warden
I agree a second geomancy is good, but it's not worth 16pts. And there is really nothing else this guy is bringing. There could be several options, like upgrading Gorax to Feral and having a second set of stones and a bellow crew/feralgeist. Or switching warden+gallows for a Pureblood, you lose the node but gain a good spray and a pseudo damage buff. Or again switching warden for a Shadowhorn (I like shadowhorns!) and with the 4 extra add a 2nd wayfarer (or even a wilder if you still like her).
Really, any of these three sounds improvements to me to a warden.
About running hot, if you get your time practicing with gobber chef, it won't be a problem anymore. That little guy is our saviour in mkiii for fury management, most of my lists wouldn't work at all without him!
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 19, 2017 13:37:26 GMT
I like the list. I agree with Sirk's suggestions. But I want to advocate a bit for the warden. The warden has Naturall pathfinder, Hits almost as hard as a Pureblood under warp strength and Has Utility. He sacrifices offensive power for that utility. While I agree he is not worth 16 (should be 15 points) while the extra TK is rarely worth the sacrificed offensive output you also have access to Gallows an amazing utility and control spell and Lightning storm which is surprisingly usefull at denying lanes and areas of the board to most standard infantry. the Pureblood has access to an amazing high Pow spray but at a pitiful rat of 5 which I have found to pretty consistently miss unless you boost (I've even stopped calculating it in my charge Damage but that's also because my dice hate un Boosted attack rolls -_-) overall I would try the warden I've kept mine for the slight increase in utility but I still look at the Pureblood it's a slightly harder choice than you would assume from the card  Also with Loki, my first handful of games I had to learn the hard way that dice suck. Out of 6 games with him I have got the drag twice. All misses against Def 12 or less while I know this has mostly to do with bad dice it also shows Lokis biggestt flaw, he is incredibly reliant on a single dice roll to preform, Krueger 2 can mitigate this with TK (place Loki safeley away after a failed drag.) and other casters can do similar with terrain generation (Pillars, forests, etc.) Mathematically boosting to hit you shouldn't have any issue hitting Def 10-12 (Def 14 gets kind of dicey but not really) but I can tell you there's nothing more frustrating than missing that pivotal 6 to hit after boosting! |
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Post by sirk on Apr 19, 2017 14:30:04 GMT
Missing a boosted 6 is quite a bad luck, I can agree.
On Warden, I can see your point, and in general I think there are lists where he can do stuff (even if I believe we shouldn't ever bring it to tournaments because at PP they could think it's good as it is!). In this list in particular I would prefer a living beast in order to have another target for primal who is not stalker/loki. I really hate sacrifing a 19pts heavy, expecially one as good as they are, while instead a Pureblood, once things get into melee, or a Shadowhorn are a perfect target for it. Expecially the latter.
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Post by ratrek on Apr 22, 2017 7:04:21 GMT
As was mentioned above, I'm really digging Loki with Kruger2. With TK's on Loki/the target you can get some suprising angles going.
The other suggestion I would make is that if you're looking at trying to create better trades for yourself via TK and Loki pulls is consider a unit of Druids. I can't recall who turned me on to them here but they've been fantastic with Kruger2. The ability to push something out of the way and then drag with Loki has been excellent. The knockdown has been useful as well since you can drag knocked down targets.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 23, 2017 17:23:33 GMT
As was mentioned above, I'm really digging Loki with Kruger2. With TK's on Loki/the target you can get some suprising angles going. The other suggestion I would make is that if you're looking at trying to create better trades for yourself via TK and Loki pulls is consider a unit of Druids. I can't recall who turned me on to them here but they've been fantastic with Kruger2. The ability to push something out of the way and then drag with Loki has been excellent. The knockdown has been useful as well since you can drag knocked down targets. Once the Battle engine CID comes out I'm planning on trying a list that has Druids and a fulcrum with Krueger 2. Going back to MA7 seems like just what they would need. |
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Post by streetpizza on Apr 24, 2017 13:49:24 GMT
A couple other pieces that make a great Kreuger2 list are blood trackers and Hutchuk. Blood trackers give you some infantry presence and help clear lead elements that an opponent might offer up. Kreuger's wind wall is one of the best ways of protecting them against blast damage too.
Hutchuk gives you that all important +2 damage buff against jacks. This can save you from having to use primal but he's a matter of preference. I happen to like our angry ogre friend as I hate primal. Hutchuk + bloodtrackers = Pow 13 javelins on preyed jacks. That will do damage.
Also I'll echo the main message here. Loki ... just Loki. Cheat trades and keep an 18" threat on their caster being dragged at all times. This will keep people honest and then add in the benefit that he's a shield guard you actually want to take in Circle and its just gravy. He's hands down the best model in circle right now and a caster like Kreuger2 only makes him better.
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