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Post by P'tit Nico on Mar 19, 2019 13:31:52 GMT
5) An important trick to further increase the output of your democorp will to have arcane might on Vlad. When your democorp goes into a juicy target you want to boost the hit. With Hand of Fate that is rolling 4 dice, drooping lowest. You have a VERY solid chance of rolling the critical. Which means the target is frozen. Which with Shatter means you are rolling an extra damage dice. This triggers on the FIRST model (attack before damage) so it is house money. That would be a POW 19 Weaponmaster under Hand of Fate. That WILL wreck lots of stuff. For the record, the chance of rolling the critical with 4 dice dropping lowest is 53.63%. If you boost the first 3 attacks, the chance of getting at least one critical hit is 90%.
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Post by Ianassa on Mar 19, 2019 17:02:44 GMT
Hi.
I'll address the opening post directly without reading the other comments. Here's my AC list pair that I've played in tournaments exclusively for about a year now, and which I've had pretty decent results with. I bet it might be slightly different from the others.
The lists were built on the basis of what I happened to own at the time I don't own the chariots but I do think they are worth looking into) while still trying to be as competetive as possible within those boundaries (I only play AC theme). It was also designed in a meta where Axis and derp turtles were dominant, so shocktroopers' extra armour over other man-o-war hardly gave an edge. Therefore I elected to go for maximum amount of bodies and damage output that I can get. Here are some ideas behind the lists:
Vlad2 -Demolition cores are the cheapest man-o-war models with the highest pow, and they are cheaper per model in min units (but you want a max unit for the sergeant). Theyre pretty good at swinging things, it's not unkommon for 2-3 swings to be enough to scrap a heavy when the feat is on and you boost the hits with Arcane Might to fish for criticals. Don't expect them to survive any dedicated efforts to kill them.
-Bombardiers are excellent with Hand of Fate, and between the feat and kovnik can threat very far. The unit is there to keep the enemy caster honest the first couple of turns and provide fire support, mainly to remove models that block charge lanes. I couldn't afford a commander here, but a tanker could be swapped for her.
-Drakhuns are absolutely worth the 18p investment. They are the best advance move target and can claim the center of the board first for you in most games. I've had these mighty warriors stop an entire enemy battlegroup on their tracs on the feat turn, allowing my democore to advance into position. Sometimes it's better to back down turn 2 however and keep them as a counter charge threat, but usually you want them jamming the opponent and buy your demolition corps time to do their thing. Either way, they usually pay their points back indirectly by the effect they have on the board. -Kovniks are absolutely worth the 4pst. A single man-o-war costs something between 2.5-3.5 points anyway, so really your paying 1 point for the desperate pace and he's really good at fighting on his own too.
Vlad1 This is the kind of braindead list, and the idea was not mine but a Swedish guy's. It's very simple: Sit back, cast signs and portens, kiss something with Aiyana (or give magic weapons if the opponent has shosts), and watch the world explode. Repeat every turn. It's pretty amazing how much damage S&P bombardiers can do, especially with kiss of lyliss. After you've taken all 3 units however, there's not much room for anything else so the list is really one dimensional, and thus has quite a lot of bad matchups. The trick is knowing when you can drop it, and to count the math on what you need to hit and to damage before rolling any dice, because otherwise you'll probably loose on clock. I've had several games with this where my opponent laughs as he/she sees me place 18 bombardiers on the board, but the laughter tends to stop after the first salvo. A good opponent however will probably play around your strengts as much as possible and make you play the game.
Both of the lists suffer from lack of pathfinder, magical weapons and defence against enemy magic. But this is pretty standard for Khador anyway, and the lack of pathfinder only emphasizes on your positioning play further, which is crucially important if you want to succeed with Khador to begin with, so really it's not that big of a deal (or that's what I tell myself at least).
Here's a tournament report with this pair from February, it's from one of the largest Finnish annual tournaments (28 participants this year, but hey it's a small country!). I ended up on 6th place and was very happy with my own performance. Bear in mind only that single post is written in English. There are pictures too!
Sorry for typos and hope someone get's ideas out of this. Have a nice day everyone
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 19, 2019 17:48:55 GMT
5) An important trick to further increase the output of your democorp will to have arcane might on Vlad. When your democorp goes into a juicy target you want to boost the hit. With Hand of Fate that is rolling 4 dice, drooping lowest. You have a VERY solid chance of rolling the critical. Which means the target is frozen. Which with Shatter means you are rolling an extra damage dice. This triggers on the FIRST model (attack before damage) so it is house money. That would be a POW 19 Weaponmaster under Hand of Fate. That WILL wreck lots of stuff. For the record, the chance of rolling the critical with 4 dice dropping lowest is 53.63%. If you boost the first 3 attacks, the chance of getting at least one critical hit is 90%. Up to what defense?
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Post by sand20go on Mar 19, 2019 20:09:53 GMT
For the record, the chance of rolling the critical with 4 dice dropping lowest is 53.63%. If you boost the first 3 attacks, the chance of getting at least one critical hit is 90%. Up to what defense? This remains the best math I have seen on S&P/Hand of Fate/ Rolling and drooping lowest. museonminis.com/why-sp-feels-like-sm/(FYI - the democorp under feat would be Mat10....so up to Def 18 you have a greater than 50% chance to crit)
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 19, 2019 20:27:31 GMT
This remains the best math I have seen on S&P/Hand of Fate/ Rolling and drooping lowest. museonminis.com/why-sp-feels-like-sm/(FYI - the democorp under feat would be Mat10....so up to Def 18 you have a greater than 50% chance to crit)
Do you know what the -1 and -2 identifiers mean? Interesting math, i always thought S&P hurt your odds, maybe i always focus on the 1 and 2 dice rolls that i have to toss that would have crit.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 19, 2019 21:53:50 GMT
This remains the best math I have seen on S&P/Hand of Fate/ Rolling and drooping lowest. museonminis.com/why-sp-feels-like-sm/(FYI - the democorp under feat would be Mat10....so up to Def 18 you have a greater than 50% chance to crit)
Do you know what the -1 and -2 identifiers mean? Interesting math, i always thought S&P hurt your odds, maybe i always focus on the 1 and 2 dice rolls that i have to toss that would have crit. It means you roll 3 and drop ANY of the dice. I can't for the life of me remember who does that (Ashyln maybe? The Troll caster? ) but it shifts the math - so that if you roll a 5-5-6 you can still crit (dropping the 6). Juris who knows other people's models better than I know Khador would recall who gives that option.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 19, 2019 22:07:04 GMT
Do you know what the -1 and -2 identifiers mean? Interesting math, i always thought S&P hurt your odds, maybe i always focus on the 1 and 2 dice rolls that i have to toss that would have crit. It means you roll 3 and drop ANY of the dice. I can't for the life of me remember who does that (Ashyln maybe? The Troll caster? ) but it shifts the math - so that if you roll a 5-5-6 you can still crit (dropping the 6). Juris who knows other people's models better than I know Khador would recall who gives that option. Ashlynn does. Syvestro's feat does.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 19, 2019 23:13:12 GMT
It means you roll 3 and drop ANY of the dice. I can't for the life of me remember who does that (Ashyln maybe? The Troll caster? ) but it shifts the math - so that if you roll a 5-5-6 you can still crit (dropping the 6). Juris who knows other people's models better than I know Khador would recall who gives that option. Ashlynn does. Syvestro's feat does. That is right and it matters a fair amount, if I recall, because syvestro has that S. Abyss that triggers blind off of critical. Too bad to be that caster as he then gets shot off table ;-)
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