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Post by josephkerr on Mar 5, 2019 20:00:27 GMT
Pillar of Salt: COST 2. Place a 3˝ AOE anywhere completely within the spellcaster’s control range where it does not overlap a model’s base. The AOE is considered to be a friendly huge-based construct model. The AOE has DEF 5 and ARM 20, is automatically hit by melee attacks, and is removed from play if it suffers 1 or more damage points. The AOE remains in play for one round.
This quickly clears up janky interractions, but arent janky interractions the reason people play Mohsar? As a non Circle player Im curious what your thoughts are on the nu Old Man.
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Post by frumiousbandersnatch on Mar 5, 2019 21:12:22 GMT
Well it clears up some of the weird interactions, but it has created many others too. There's a thread about it on the FB page currently where people are pointing things out. The Pillars are now "friendly models" and that comes with a whole slew of things. It can be moved around by befuddle, for example (it is considered a huge base, but does not have the "massive" or "immobile" rule). Grymkin Arcana can turn them living and collect souls from it. It no longer provides you with cover, but it can contest zones and flags.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 5, 2019 21:29:21 GMT
The contesting part is where the money will be at. It can also now be affected by shadow fire which ain't great.
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natedog
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 2
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Post by natedog on Mar 6, 2019 5:42:16 GMT
Grymkin Arcana can turn them living and collect souls from it. They can't collect souls/corpses from them as the spell states that the pillar is RFP upon being damaged.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 6, 2019 7:29:25 GMT
I think this will be pretty good! Being able to contest "for free" is huge, and they arent absolutely trivial to remove, especially since you could place them pretty far up the board and then shifting sands to get back to safety. Getting one in the outer back corner of the opponents zone is not unreasonable late game, and it might be pretty hard to get rid of. I like it, though i havent considered all the implications. Maybe they have to add "immovable object" or something like that.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Mar 6, 2019 7:44:31 GMT
There are a couple massive problems with these at the moment, namely that when you measure attack ranges you have to measure from base to base and these don't have those so...RAW you can't target them with attacks.
Also, since they don't have a base, they don't interact with the LoS blocking parts of the rules properly and at the moment they don't block line of sight to other models at all as far as I can tell.
Contesting is massive, that alone (if it stays) will make Mohsar a top tier Warlock.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 6, 2019 12:07:43 GMT
There are a couple massive problems with these at the moment, namely that when you measure attack ranges you have to measure from base to base and these don't have those so...RAW you can't target them with attacks. Also, since they don't have a base, they don't interact with the LoS blocking parts of the rules properly and at the moment they don't block line of sight to other models at all as far as I can tell. Contesting is massive, that alone (if it stays) will make Mohsar a top tier Warlock. Given that there are no oficial models for flags and objectives wouldn't the RAW problem apply to them as well?
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Post by Trollock on Mar 6, 2019 12:23:32 GMT
There are a couple massive problems with these at the moment, namely that when you measure attack ranges you have to measure from base to base and these don't have those so...RAW you can't target them with attacks. Also, since they don't have a base, they don't interact with the LoS blocking parts of the rules properly and at the moment they don't block line of sight to other models at all as far as I can tell. Contesting is massive, that alone (if it stays) will make Mohsar a top tier Warlock. Given that there are no oficial models for flags and objectives wouldn't the RAW problem apply to them as well? Objectives are defined as having a 50mm base, and flags have a 40mm base. The fact that they do not have an official model doesnt really matter as they do have a base. As i understand it, Pillars dont have a base, but are an AoE... It will surely take some cleaning before this works as intended but im sure they will get to it quickly as this was intended to FIX problems, not the other way around
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Post by jisidro on Mar 6, 2019 13:15:26 GMT
From the SR document :
Controlling Zones (12˝-diameter circle or 6˝ x 12˝ rectangle) ... Controlling Flags (40 mm base) ... Objective (50 mm base) ...
The text I left is the only place where they mention base. Given that zone sizes are defined the same way I think Raw tells us a pillar is a 3" base.
They should however give a comprehensive description of what a pillar is. I'd go with DY's suggestion and cut it for something else.
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Post by NoSuchMethod on Mar 6, 2019 14:23:50 GMT
Saw something on one of those other forums suggesting they should just change the spell to the more generic "Put a Salt Pillar in to play" language, and then give Salt Pillars their own card with all the appropriate stats / rules. In other words, just make them an actual model and be done with it.
Of course that does leave the question of base size open, since there's "no such thing" as a three inch base.
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Post by phantomsig on Mar 6, 2019 22:24:43 GMT
So yes my own fault for not reading the steelhead cid, but was this changed covered in CID? It seems like all these challenges should have been picked up then?
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Post by Trollock on Mar 7, 2019 6:27:24 GMT
So yes my own fault for not reading the steelhead cid, but was this changed covered in CID? It seems like all these challenges should have been picked up then? this was not included in the CID.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 8, 2019 18:08:24 GMT
Also, as far as I understand you can't charge a friendly pillar anymore, right? Since you can choose friendly models for charges or power attacks anymore, correct? If so it puts a stop to LotF abuse.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 8, 2019 20:35:19 GMT
Also, as far as I understand you can't charge a friendly pillar anymore, right? Since you can choose friendly models for charges or power attacks anymore, correct? If so it puts a stop to LotF abuse. I think that was basically the entire point of this change
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 8, 2019 22:05:24 GMT
Also, as far as I understand you can't charge a friendly pillar anymore, right? Since you can choose friendly models for charges or power attacks anymore, correct? If so it puts a stop to LotF abuse. I think that was basically the entire point of this change I figured as much, just wanted to confirm.
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