cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Mar 5, 2019 16:48:18 GMT
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Mar 5, 2019 16:56:08 GMT
I saw this yesterday and had a feeling we would be getting a doom thread before long...
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Post by dragonpup on Mar 5, 2019 16:59:09 GMT
Maybe, but probably no.
40k and the D&D miniatures have always been huge sellers, no surprise there.
This chart comes out twice a year and the prior one we saw X-Wing falls off hard as that was prior to the full launch of 2nd edition (the time when players typically hold back buying stuff while they wait for edition changes), and Legion was just launching. How much of those is 'new edition/game hype' sales booms and how much is 'problems with Privateer' we cannot tell. Also, WarMachine and Hordes afaik are tracked separately which may artificially lower their ranking.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2019 17:07:00 GMT
Star Wars Legion had a huge launch hype and then completely disappeared, as far as I can tell around here.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2019 17:19:07 GMT
Also, I would be interested to know how Monsterpocalypse has fared (but I’m not going to subscribe to an industry trade thing because of obvious reasons), and to what extent it has cannibalized existing WM/H sales. My own personal experience is that MonPoc has come out of the gate very strong and captured a significant portion of the WM/H crowd that was getting fatigued by WM/H. They haven’t given up on WM/H, but several have taken breaks while they wait for Infernals/their faction’s next CID/whatever and are thoroughly enjoying their dip into MonPoc!
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 5, 2019 17:36:44 GMT
You should've been worried when the staff started leaving.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Mar 5, 2019 18:12:31 GMT
Im not suprised by 40k, Age of sigmar and xwing. Must admit that im suprised that star wars legion is before warmachine. Wasnt Legion released first half year of 2018, so these numbers are well after first release ?
Would have been nice to also see the numbers of sales on top 5 and know where warmachine are compared to those.
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Post by dogganmguest on Mar 5, 2019 20:18:00 GMT
"The charts are based on interviews with retailers, distributors, and manufacturers."
It's probably a reasonable indication of popularity, but calling it "sales numbers" seems a bit off with a description like that.
I also think that it's a lot harder to sell WMH models when you barely stock any, which is the situation in every store I can get to.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 5, 2019 20:29:14 GMT
I also think that it's a lot harder to sell WMH models when you barely stock any, which is the situation in every store I can get to. Yup, it's very obvious that FLGS aren't really carrying PPs stuff much these days. A facebook conversation a few weeks ago was noting how distributors have a fixed budget on stuff they'll carry from any manufacturer, and they'll mostly only order cases from the new stuff, since that's stuff they know will move. First thing new management needs to do is to get the FLGS ordering their stuff again, and I think that means sunsetting a lot of legacy stuff that doesn't move (and giving us a new streamlined edition from the ground up).
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Post by mydnight on Mar 5, 2019 20:46:48 GMT
PP were silly enough to kill online sellers, to try and protect LGS' who won't carry their stuff anymore. The net result is that PP sells more things directly now but their retail presence outside of that (both online and in stores) has shrunk considerably.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 5, 2019 20:56:35 GMT
PP were silly enough to kill online sellers, to try and protect LGS' who won't carry their stuff anymore. The net result is that PP sells more things directly now but their retail presence outside of that (both online and in stores) has shrunk considerably. I think Warmachine Mk3 had an Identity Crisis from the get go. Everything from their distribution channels (screwing over online sellers), to their "Your army, Your way" marketing and the "First Shots" Organized Play kit targeting kids. Or even outright eliminating the spirit of Page 5 (instead of rewording it with less edge-lordy language) hurt the identity of Warmachine I think. Seems like they didn't have a unified vision going forward. Or that they wanted to change their vision from Mk2 (hardcore competition) to Mk3 (laid back casual play that anyone can pick up), and it just didn't pan out.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2019 21:10:44 GMT
Protecting the value of the product from nickel-over-wholesale online pricing is fully in keeping with the trends of every other game manufacturer out there. Wizards is about to send Magic into uncharted territory with their “no MSRP” policy starting in April. We’ll see how that turns out for them. A bunch of Magic-centric stores are likely going to race to the bottom and put themselves out of business in the next 6-12 months.
But, no, dumping product online at prices so low that the FLGS can’t possibly compete is not, in fact, good for Privateer’s business, nor anyone else’s. There has to be a value proposition for retailers to stock their stuff, and watch and see how long a retailer is going to tolerate gamers trying the “buy online, use the retailer’s space to play it” tactic...
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 5, 2019 21:19:14 GMT
I agree with you michael because I saw first hand what free loaders can do to a gaming space that's struggling to begin with. Thing is, PP basically said "We're gonna make it harder for Online Stores to move our product", but they never said "We're going to make it easier for Brick and Mortar Stores to move our product". Instead they have a catalog with a 1000+ SKUs, and counting, and no way for a FLGS to comfortably pull in new players when they still need to order hard to get legacy models through some obscure method.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Mar 5, 2019 21:22:18 GMT
I also think that it's a lot harder to sell WMH models when you barely stock any, which is the situation in every store I can get to. Yup, it's very obvious that FLGS aren't really carrying PPs stuff much these days. A facebook conversation a few weeks ago was noting how distributors have a fixed budget on stuff they'll carry from any manufacturer, and they'll mostly only order cases from the new stuff, since that's stuff they know will move. First thing new management needs to do is to get the FLGS ordering their stuff again, and I think that means sunsetting a lot of legacy stuff that doesn't move (and giving us a new streamlined edition from the ground up). Im unshure how PP will get FLGS to order more warmahordes. The 2 stores here have tons of old stuff which dont move even with heavy discount. The store owner is really unhappy with PP after PP went digital no card no books, after they ordered it. Command books are all around in the shop collecting dust. And then the direct sale of heavy discounted mystery box which made it even more difficult for the store. The store is now direct ordering from distributor what warmachine you order in the shop, but they are not stocking up on any warmahordes, even the newest hotness. The only thing i can see is new games ala riotquest or warmachine 4 ed being so good and in high demand that the store owner just have to commit to ordering more than the minimum. Some of the same happened with the store towards GW, when GW was into their dark ages and a little hostile against independent stores competing against their own store. It took years for GW to build up the trust and shelfspace.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2019 22:38:42 GMT
I agree with you michael because I saw first hand what free loaders can do to a gaming space that's struggling to begin with. Thing is, PP basically said "We're gonna make it harder for Online Stores to move our product", but they never said "We're going to make it easier for Brick and Mortar Stores to move our product". Instead they have a catalog with a 1000+ SKUs, and counting, and no way for a FLGS to comfortably pull in new players when they still need to order hard to get legacy models through some obscure method. Privateer moved a large portion of their SKUs to the back catalogue. That’s one of the ways they are trying to help the FLGS. Etc. etc. something or the other.
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