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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 10, 2019 7:30:54 GMT
And the very nice looking GW Herdstone costs 30$ RRP... I wonder which one will be used more often to represent this tribal structure of savage forest people... i was just thinking this exact same thing. Cause half of the price, (a little under cause you can find them at discount vs BAHI you cannot) for a better looking model seems like an attractive option for a lot of EU players. Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Mar 11, 2019 6:47:29 GMT
i was just thinking this exact same thing. Cause half of the price, (a little under cause you can find them at discount vs BAHI you cannot) for a better looking model seems like an attractive option for a lot of EU players. Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort. PP stuff is solid while GW stuff is usually hollow. Add 2 Tharn models amd call it a day?
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 11, 2019 7:56:34 GMT
Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort. PP stuff is solid while GW stuff is usually hollow. Add 2 Tharn models amd call it a day? Or fill the inside of the rock with chopped up warpwolf bits.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 11, 2019 10:58:20 GMT
i was just thinking this exact same thing. Cause half of the price, (a little under cause you can find them at discount vs BAHI you cannot) for a better looking model seems like an attractive option for a lot of EU players. Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort. This would not be tournament legal because you are using parts from another manufacturer that also produces tabletop miniatures (this clause is in there to prevent Gw bitz entirely). And I think even Gw terrain is not an exception.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Mar 11, 2019 13:23:01 GMT
Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort. This would not be tournament legal because you are using parts from another manufacturer that also produces tabletop miniatures (this clause is in there to prevent Gw bitz entirely). And I think even Gw terrain is not an exception. This is just not true.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 11, 2019 17:07:05 GMT
Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort. This would not be tournament legal because you are using parts from another manufacturer that also produces tabletop miniatures (this clause is in there to prevent Gw bitz entirely). And I think even Gw terrain is not an exception. There is no such rule. The rules are: - 50% PP parts by volume (check, stone is hollow and has sufficient internal space that filling it with random PP bits brings you over 50%) - iconic elements of model represented (There aren't really any iconic elements of a Well of Orboros, and the weapon is not represented on the model itself) - no trademark infringement (meaning no use of copyrighted logos, symbols, text, etc. - Mounted on an appropriately sized base (check, the stone fits easily on a 120 mm) - Easily identifiable (check, there are no other structures in Circle which it could possibly be).
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 11, 2019 17:22:35 GMT
Why not both? Personally I ordered A Well, and i plan to use a Herdstone for a second 'Tharn' Well. Given that PP still uses the very silly "50% PP Parts by volume", I should even be able to make it tournament legal with very little effort. This would not be tournament legal because you are using parts from another manufacturer that also produces tabletop miniatures (this clause is in there to prevent Gw bitz entirely). And I think even Gw terrain is not an exception. Thay actually only have that rule for their Painting Competitions, not for tournaments
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Post by michael on Mar 11, 2019 22:28:21 GMT
This would not be tournament legal because you are using parts from another manufacturer that also produces tabletop miniatures (this clause is in there to prevent Gw bitz entirely). And I think even Gw terrain is not an exception. There is no such rule. The rules are: - 50% PP parts by volume (check, stone is hollow and has sufficient internal space that filling it with random PP bits brings you over 50%) - iconic elements of model represented (There aren't really any iconic elements of a Well of Orboros, and the weapon is not represented on the model itself) - no trademark infringement (meaning no use of copyrighted logos, symbols, text, etc. - Mounted on an appropriately sized base (check, the stone fits easily on a 120 mm) - Easily identifiable (check, there are no other structures in Circle which it could possibly be). Hmm. Better crack open your model and prove those are PP parts rattling around inside. You should keep a full list of the part stock numbers from the PP web store just so your TO can verify during the event... on your clock, of course. Also, I don’t see any waterfalls on that herdstone, and the waterfall is clearly the most iconic element. I could see somebody confusing it for the Celestial Fulcrum. Sorry, that model is DQ’d. But seriously: why are you jumping through hoops to avoid paying an extra $20 for an awesome model? Geez.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Mar 12, 2019 2:45:25 GMT
There is no such rule. The rules are: - 50% PP parts by volume (check, stone is hollow and has sufficient internal space that filling it with random PP bits brings you over 50%) - iconic elements of model represented (There aren't really any iconic elements of a Well of Orboros, and the weapon is not represented on the model itself) - no trademark infringement (meaning no use of copyrighted logos, symbols, text, etc. - Mounted on an appropriately sized base (check, the stone fits easily on a 120 mm) - Easily identifiable (check, there are no other structures in Circle which it could possibly be). Hmm. Better crack open your model and prove those are PP parts rattling around inside. You should keep a full list of the part stock numbers from the PP web store just so your TO can verify during the event... on your clock, of course. Also, I don’t see any waterfalls on that herdstone, and the waterfall is clearly the most iconic element. I could see somebody confusing it for the Celestial Fulcrum. Sorry, that model is DQ’d. But seriously: why are you jumping through hoops to avoid paying an extra $20 for an awesome model? Geez. Because you can buy a herdstone on ebay for about 25.50 with free shipping in the US? Hell, for 1.50 in acrylic gel I can put a waterfall coming from the herdstone's eyes if that makes you feel better. Still comes out to be less than half of the cost for the Orbortos Well.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 12, 2019 4:59:33 GMT
There is no such rule. The rules are: - 50% PP parts by volume (check, stone is hollow and has sufficient internal space that filling it with random PP bits brings you over 50%) - iconic elements of model represented (There aren't really any iconic elements of a Well of Orboros, and the weapon is not represented on the model itself) - no trademark infringement (meaning no use of copyrighted logos, symbols, text, etc. - Mounted on an appropriately sized base (check, the stone fits easily on a 120 mm) - Easily identifiable (check, there are no other structures in Circle which it could possibly be). Hmm. Better crack open your model and prove those are PP parts rattling around inside. You should keep a full list of the part stock numbers from the PP web store just so your TO can verify during the event... on your clock, of course. Also, I don’t see any waterfalls on that herdstone, and the waterfall is clearly the most iconic element. I could see somebody confusing it for the Celestial Fulcrum. Sorry, that model is DQ’d. But seriously: why are you jumping through hoops to avoid paying an extra $20 for an awesome model? Geez. because I already bought one Well, and I don't want two identical wells? Because it aesthetically fits better with a Tharn list? Because I'm not made of money, and a herdstone is $30 in Canada, vs. a Well being $80? Lots of reasons. Inidividuals like yourself might mean I have to magnetize the herdstone to 'prove' it's actually got PP parts inside, but anyone who disallows that substitution is, IMO, being really damn shitty, given that it conforms to the letter of the conversion rules. I wouldn't want to attend any event where the TO is that stringent about that conversions. The Elitism about conversions and (reasonable) proxies is one of my least favorite things about this community. I find it particularly astounding that, in a game so focused on RAW, people seem to be highly insistent on applying RAI to exclude conversions.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Mar 12, 2019 6:32:10 GMT
Hmm. Better crack open your model and prove those are PP parts rattling around inside. You should keep a full list of the part stock numbers from the PP web store just so your TO can verify during the event... on your clock, of course. Also, I don’t see any waterfalls on that herdstone, and the waterfall is clearly the most iconic element. I could see somebody confusing it for the Celestial Fulcrum. Sorry, that model is DQ’d. But seriously: why are you jumping through hoops to avoid paying an extra $20 for an awesome model? Geez. because I already bought one Well, and I don't want two identical wells? Because it aesthetically fits better with a Tharn list? Because I'm not made of money, and a herdstone is $30 in Canada, vs. a Well being $80? Lots of reasons. Inidividuals like yourself might mean I have to magnetize the herdstone to 'prove' it's actually got PP parts inside, but anyone who disallows that substitution is, IMO, being really damn shitty, given that it conforms to the letter of the conversion rules. I wouldn't want to attend any event where the TO is that stringent about that conversions. The Elitism about conversions and (reasonable) proxies is one of my least favorite things about this community. I find it particularly astounding that, in a game so focused on RAW, people seem to be highly insistent on applying RAI to exclude conversions. yup. i kind of think that same ideology has had a detrimental effect on the hobby and artistic side of the game. Some of the most beautiful armies i have seen in 40k or AoS were heavily, HEAVILY converted. Taken to the extreme, I am reminded of the guy who had the absolutely drop-dead gorgeous Cygnar army fully painted, but he put the models on clear bases instead of normal bases. They weren't round lipped bases, which it specifies in the rules, so he was told his army wasn't tournament legal. I am fairly certain I saw that army up for sale, though that may just be me.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 12, 2019 7:51:00 GMT
because I already bought one Well, and I don't want two identical wells? Because it aesthetically fits better with a Tharn list? Because I'm not made of money, and a herdstone is $30 in Canada, vs. a Well being $80? Lots of reasons. Inidividuals like yourself might mean I have to magnetize the herdstone to 'prove' it's actually got PP parts inside, but anyone who disallows that substitution is, IMO, being really damn shitty, given that it conforms to the letter of the conversion rules. I wouldn't want to attend any event where the TO is that stringent about that conversions. The Elitism about conversions and (reasonable) proxies is one of my least favorite things about this community. I find it particularly astounding that, in a game so focused on RAW, people seem to be highly insistent on applying RAI to exclude conversions. yup. i kind of think that same ideology has had a detrimental effect on the hobby and artistic side of the game. Some of the most beautiful armies i have seen in 40k or AoS were heavily, HEAVILY converted. Taken to the extreme, I am reminded of the guy who had the absolutely drop-dead gorgeous Cygnar army fully painted, but he put the models on clear bases instead of normal bases. They weren't round lipped bases, which it specifies in the rules, so he was told his army wasn't tournament legal. I am fairly certain I saw that army up for sale, though that may just be me. I mean, there's definitely a limit. If your opponent has to be told multiple times what a proxy is, or if it's actively confusing, or if it actually interferes with gameplay...sure. That's fair to ban it. But most of the shitty attitudes I've seen have been directed towards conversions that would not rise to that criteria.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 12, 2019 9:11:07 GMT
Also, I don’t see any waterfalls on that herdstone, and the waterfall is clearly the most iconic element. I could see somebody confusing it for the Celestial Fulcrum. Sorry, that model is DQ’d. But seriously: why are you jumping through hoops to avoid paying an extra $20 for an awesome model? Geez. The Herdstone actually has a nice indentation in front of it where you can put some clear resin/painted green stuff to show a small stream flowinging out of the rock.
Also, why are you jumpning through hoops to a) eliminate potential players, for whom the price difference matters, from an already dwindling community (e.g. in Poland it's more like 35$ more cost for NOTHING gained ...and it's just one model) b) eliminate creativity, individuality and visual variety between armies
?
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