|
Post by greytemplar on Mar 1, 2019 22:57:27 GMT
Consider this... Feat have insanly powerfull effects and there is no feat that puts a new beast into play. Goreshade1 puts 6 banes and Thagrosh1 returns a model you paid for to play. No feat allows you to place a beast and activate it. I am very curious to see how they tackled this economy given that 3-5 essence means a new 6-18 pt model on the table. Well we will see. They make it sound like the Horrors have terrible stats, aside from P+S. So it really depends on how many points the support solos that can hand out essence during their activation cost and how much buffing can be done without the Masters.
I expect that in testing, we should push for the Marked Soul to have a range limit that isn't Control. To make the Infernal player have to at least somewhat expose his Essence sources.
|
|
|
Post by anderfreak on Mar 2, 2019 0:07:40 GMT
Consider this... Feat have insanly powerfull effects and there is no feat that puts a new beast into play. Goreshade1 puts 6 banes and Thagrosh1 returns a model you paid for to play. No feat allows you to place a beast and activate it. I am very curious to see how they tackled this economy given that 3-5 essence means a new 6-18 pt model on the table. Well we will see. They make it sound like the Horrors have terrible stats, aside from P+S. So it really depends on how many points the support solos that can hand out essence during their activation cost and how much buffing can be done without the Masters.
I expect that in testing, we should push for the Marked Soul to have a range limit that isn't Control. To make the Infernal player have to at least somewhat expose his Essence sources.
I could see the range being modular like Reposition, Marked Soul[6"]. That would open up the ability to scale with more granularity. Like a really expensive model could have Marked Soul[CTRL] potentially. As a Tyranid player I really hated working with Synapse, effectively a Hive Mind range for those unfamiliar with WH40k. They always had trouble getting the point balance right, because Synapse is necessary for your army to work as intended, but you often paid a premium for it on completely ineffective models that would instantly die. I don't suspect it will be as glaring because Top of turn 1 kills aren't really a thing for PP unlike GW, but I'm getting gamer PTSD remembering my 4 Hive Tyrants getting shot off the board before I even moved my models. Positioning your Hive Tyrants outside of 48" Lascannon range while still having synapse covering your infantry is not actually possible in 40k...
|
|
|
Post by gedditoffme on Mar 2, 2019 1:49:21 GMT
I’m interested in the essence mechanic: it sounds like it will be impossible to run horror heavy lists without a lot of free essence around (in the form of empower or similar). I wouldn’t be surprised if a horror warcaster gave an ability to avoid paying the tithe just so he isn’t dumping all his fury into them to keep them alive.
They spoiled signs and portents, a focus 7 caster will be keeping 3 horrors alive and camping nothing if he casts it- I think summoning 3-4 essence heavies will not be on your mind most of the time for this reason. If they have enough empowers or can use souls to pay the tithe that may help though.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Mar 2, 2019 4:19:11 GMT
Well we will see. They make it sound like the Horrors have terrible stats, aside from P+S. So it really depends on how many points the support solos that can hand out essence during their activation cost and how much buffing can be done without the Masters.
I expect that in testing, we should push for the Marked Soul to have a range limit that isn't Control. To make the Infernal player have to at least somewhat expose his Essence sources.
I could see the range being modular like Reposition, Marked Soul[6"]. That would open up the ability to scale with more granularity. Like a really expensive model could have Marked Soul[CTRL] potentially. As a Tyranid player I really hated working with Synapse, effectively a Hive Mind range for those unfamiliar with WH40k. They always had trouble getting the point balance right, because Synapse is necessary for your army to work as intended, but you often paid a premium for it on completely ineffective models that would instantly die. I don't suspect it will be as glaring because Top of turn 1 kills aren't really a thing for PP unlike GW, but I'm getting gamer PTSD remembering my 4 Hive Tyrants getting shot off the board before I even moved my models. Positioning your Hive Tyrants outside of 48" Lascannon range while still having synapse covering your infantry is not actually possible in 40k... That and limited FA could work.
Maybe you get an FA2 solo who has unlimited range and is expensive, but also have cheap solos who have limited range. That would make list building a very tactical level of gameplay too. How many of which type do you pay for?
It also definitely makes it seem like this will make being able to solo snipe a much more important thing to have when fighting them. You don't need to necessarily assassinate the Master, but if you kill all his Marked Soul models then he's really screwed.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on Mar 2, 2019 14:03:54 GMT
Consider this... Feat have insanly powerfull effects and there is no feat that puts a new beast into play. Goreshade1 puts 6 banes and Thagrosh1 returns a model you paid for to play. No feat allows you to place a beast and activate it. I am very curious to see how they tackled this economy given that 3-5 essence means a new 6-18 pt model on the table. Well we will see. They make it sound like the Horrors have terrible stats, aside from P+S. So it really depends on how many points the support solos that can hand out essence during their activation cost and how much buffing can be done without the Masters.
I expect that in testing, we should push for the Marked Soul to have a range limit that isn't Control. To make the Infernal player have to at least somewhat expose his Essence sources.
I love how you plan to go into this cid without preconceptions, keeping an open mind.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Mar 2, 2019 15:48:41 GMT
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Mar 2, 2019 22:21:51 GMT
Well we will see. They make it sound like the Horrors have terrible stats, aside from P+S. So it really depends on how many points the support solos that can hand out essence during their activation cost and how much buffing can be done without the Masters.
I expect that in testing, we should push for the Marked Soul to have a range limit that isn't Control. To make the Infernal player have to at least somewhat expose his Essence sources.
I love how you plan to go into this cid without preconceptions, keeping an open mind. Brains fall out of open minds.
Anyway, its not like I'm 100% adamant that that will need to be done. It depends on how the specifics of the Marked Soul mechanics work and how much they cost. But as PP has stated that this supposed to be a drawback, it does seem to warrant putting some range limits on them so that its actually a weakness that can be exploited in actual gameplay and not just something that exists on paper.
|
|
|
Post by gedditoffme on Mar 3, 2019 2:51:27 GMT
I love how you plan to go into this cid without preconceptions, keeping an open mind. Brains fall out of open minds.
Anyway, its not like I'm 100% adamant that that will need to be done. It depends on how the specifics of the Marked Soul mechanics work and how much they cost. But as PP has stated that this supposed to be a drawback, it does seem to warrant putting some range limits on them so that its actually a weakness that can be exploited in actual gameplay and not just something that exists on paper.
They specifically mentioned this in the intro though: you’re going to want the cyclists near the front because of their awesome support abilities. Let’s take them at their word until we see it in action. Any comments on if masters can ‘cut’ to top up their essence if they don’t sacrifice for a turn? Or are they just left with leftovers from previous turn?
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Mar 3, 2019 7:03:23 GMT
They seem to imply that they have no way other than sacrificing models or collecting souls to get essence.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Mar 3, 2019 9:18:46 GMT
They seem to imply that they have no way other than sacrificing models or collecting souls to get essence. Essense can be gains on the Master by. Cutting 1hp= 1 essence. Souls. 1 soul = 1 essesnce after allocation. Sacrifice. Fully fills For horrors Starts with max if in starting list. Can be allocated from master. Some solos can "essence up horrors"
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Mar 3, 2019 17:13:32 GMT
Ok cool. Missed that they could cut.
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 4, 2019 22:00:13 GMT
Sounds weak on paper but we all know PP will push them hard and give them busted do everything models like other minifactions got.
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Mar 5, 2019 3:43:28 GMT
Sounds weak on paper but we all know PP will push them hard and give them busted do everything models like other minifactions got. At the very least, and they've stated they do this, they will be crazy broken in their CID introduction. Why? So people play them and against them, and report on what happened. They deliberately make it crazy so they can dial things back.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Mar 5, 2019 5:46:35 GMT
Sounds weak on paper but we all know PP will push them hard and give them busted do everything models like other minifactions got. At the very least, and they've stated they do this, they will be crazy broken in their CID introduction. Why? So people play them and against them, and report on what happened. They deliberately make it crazy so they can dial things back. As long as they don't buff them when there's 3 days left of the CiD and conclude 'it's fine, it's balanced' based on 4 battle reports.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on Mar 5, 2019 9:56:33 GMT
At the very least, and they've stated they do this, they will be crazy broken in their CID introduction. Why? So people play them and against them, and report on what happened. They deliberately make it crazy so they can dial things back. As long as they don't buff them when there's 3 days left of the CiD and conclude 'it's fine, it's balanced' based on 4 battle reports. Agreed, they kinda did that with the grave ghoul it's so dumb. I don't like the design philosophy as explained above, why start someplace that's deemed unreasonable? It's a waste of time, and there'll allways be people who think it's fine (and powercreep doesn't exist). It's just not helpfull (even though it can be fun).
|
|