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Post by jisidro on Feb 26, 2019 13:50:47 GMT
Given the output associated with getting corpses the croc pot might as well be a tharn model. Ideally the croc pot would be a Tharn pot able to count for points and then LotF/B&C could be trimmed (I am not convinced they need it.) as it is it's a 65pt theme. Isnt that the Well? Nope, a Well is 10pts that don't come from BG or count for the theme. It's performance apart if constricts list creation to 5pt of leeway after you get the 3 solos from the Tharn. It also doesn't top off the LotF 1st turn and threaten a puppet master LotF missile t2.
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Post by jisidro on Feb 26, 2019 13:53:39 GMT
What are you thinking of? Really, theres several ways to go, right? Depending on your caster and available buffs. But lets just take Iona. Your ravagers and chief can mini feat, under Ionas feat, with a model getting DI from the bloodshamen, they have theme hearts, and maybe the croc pot tops one off and hands out puppet strings. Charge that into any mix of things and you probably get some results. With that lvl of buffing stuff gets dead pretty fast. I'm not a fan of super-juicing stuff but that's a significant part of the game.
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Post by anderfreak on Feb 26, 2019 16:50:28 GMT
I don't see Tharn as a problem in the long term. Just let them be over-tuned for a while and eventually answers will arrive.
We lived through Mk2 the exact same way.
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Post by paradox on Feb 26, 2019 18:22:52 GMT
Nope, a Well is 10pts that don't come from BG or count for the theme. It's performance apart if constricts list creation to 5pt of leeway after you get the 3 solos from the Tharn. It also doesn't top off the LotF 1st turn and threaten a puppet master LotF missile t2. We’ll have to see where the Well ends up. But 10pts and a free solo make up a fair bit for the loss of theme pts. Frankly, I just ignored the Well in the CID because it was too weird and forced into what I felt was a mismatched theme. Tharn could have used a vastly different structure or BE. For sure. It cant top off LotF early. But it can do it while doing work, and still fairly early in the game, too. Whereas croc pot really does not do direct work. And Ive never had to actually use Puppet Strings on the Lord. I put it on him often enough, but never had occasion to use it. Whereas the Well will buff other pieces in different ways.
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Post by paradox on Feb 26, 2019 18:23:26 GMT
Really, theres several ways to go, right? Depending on your caster and available buffs. But lets just take Iona. Your ravagers and chief can mini feat, under Ionas feat, with a model getting DI from the bloodshamen, they have theme hearts, and maybe the croc pot tops one off and hands out puppet strings. Charge that into any mix of things and you probably get some results. With that lvl of buffing stuff gets dead pretty fast. I'm not a fan of super-juicing stuff but that's a significant part of the game. I guess I dont know what to say? Are we saying ravagers should be bad?
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Post by streetpizza on Feb 26, 2019 19:59:31 GMT
Nope, a Well is 10pts that don't come from BG or count for the theme. It's performance apart if constricts list creation to 5pt of leeway after you get the 3 solos from the Tharn. It also doesn't top off the LotF 1st turn and threaten a puppet master LotF missile t2. We’ll have to see where the Well ends up. But 10pts and a free solo make up a fair bit for the loss of theme pts. Frankly, I just ignored the Well in the CID because it was too weird and forced into what I felt was a mismatched theme. Tharn could have used a vastly different structure or BE. For sure. It cant top off LotF early. But it can do it while doing work, and still fairly early in the game, too. Whereas croc pot really does not do direct work. And Ive never had to actually use Puppet Strings on the Lord. I put it on him often enough, but never had occasion to use it. Whereas the Well will buff other pieces in different ways. We know where the well ended up. Its rules are on the card database. cards.privateerpress.com?card_items_to_pdf=$4250,1 The tharn could deffinitely use something more thematic for their theme like a totem or something but we've got what we've got. At least the well is available in every other theme and is actually not bad in CotW for control range buff and topping up LotF. You've never used spectral lash on the pot? A big part of my game plan is working it forward in the early turns until it becomes a credible threat extension mechanism for the mid to late game. Spot removal of flanking elements with the boosted shot and damage are nice as well. Funny thing about puppet strings is you'll never care that it was there until you do and then you REALLY do. So far its saved 2 raven shots from double 1's for me and been a big damage adder when a damage roll goes south on me.
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Post by jisidro on Feb 26, 2019 20:12:14 GMT
With that lvl of buffing stuff gets dead pretty fast. I'm not a fan of super-juicing stuff but that's a significant part of the game. I guess I dont know what to say? Are we saying ravagers should be bad?
Not at all. I'm saying that making a mechanithrall as strong as a colossal isn't my favorite part of the game.
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Post by paradox on Feb 26, 2019 20:22:17 GMT
We’ll have to see where the Well ends up. But 10pts and a free solo make up a fair bit for the loss of theme pts. Frankly, I just ignored the Well in the CID because it was too weird and forced into what I felt was a mismatched theme. Tharn could have used a vastly different structure or BE. For sure. It cant top off LotF early. But it can do it while doing work, and still fairly early in the game, too. Whereas croc pot really does not do direct work. And Ive never had to actually use Puppet Strings on the Lord. I put it on him often enough, but never had occasion to use it. Whereas the Well will buff other pieces in different ways. We know where the well ended up. Its rules are on the card database. cards.privateerpress.com?card_items_to_pdf=$4250,1 The tharn could deffinitely use something more thematic for their theme like a totem or something but we've got what we've got. At least the well is available in every other theme and is actually not bad in CotW for control range buff and topping up LotF. You've never used spectral lash on the pot? A big part of my game plan is working it forward in the early turns until it becomes a credible threat extension mechanism for the mid to late game. Spot removal of flanking elements with the boosted shot and damage are nice as well. Funny thing about puppet strings is you'll never care that it was there until you do and then you REALLY do. So far its saved 2 raven shots from double 1's for me and been a big damage adder when a damage roll goes south on me. I know its in the database, but its also not in WR, so? Could end up tweaked, I guess? And no, Ive never had occasion to lash.
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Post by streetpizza on Feb 26, 2019 21:25:20 GMT
We know where the well ended up. Its rules are on the card database. cards.privateerpress.com?card_items_to_pdf=$4250,1 The tharn could deffinitely use something more thematic for their theme like a totem or something but we've got what we've got. At least the well is available in every other theme and is actually not bad in CotW for control range buff and topping up LotF. You've never used spectral lash on the pot? A big part of my game plan is working it forward in the early turns until it becomes a credible threat extension mechanism for the mid to late game. Spot removal of flanking elements with the boosted shot and damage are nice as well. Funny thing about puppet strings is you'll never care that it was there until you do and then you REALLY do. So far its saved 2 raven shots from double 1's for me and been a big damage adder when a damage roll goes south on me. I know its in the database, but its also not in WR, so? Could end up tweaked, I guess? And no, Ive never had occasion to lash. Past BAHI releases show that if its in the database then thems the rules.
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Post by elshinare on Feb 27, 2019 3:22:43 GMT
What are you thinking of? Really, theres several ways to go, right? Depending on your caster and available buffs. But lets just take Iona. Your ravagers and chief can mini feat, under Ionas feat, with a model getting DI from the bloodshamen, they have theme hearts, and maybe the croc pot tops one off and hands out puppet strings. Charge that into any mix of things and you probably get some results. Dont think you can puppet strings and top off models in the same action.
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Post by paradox on Feb 27, 2019 3:27:23 GMT
Really, theres several ways to go, right? Depending on your caster and available buffs. But lets just take Iona. Your ravagers and chief can mini feat, under Ionas feat, with a model getting DI from the bloodshamen, they have theme hearts, and maybe the croc pot tops one off and hands out puppet strings. Charge that into any mix of things and you probably get some results. Dont think you can puppet strings and top off models in the same action. Special Delivery is an any-time ability. Puppet Strings is a *Action. So you can.
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Post by elshinare on Feb 27, 2019 5:21:18 GMT
Dont think you can puppet strings and top off models in the same action. Special Delivery is an any-time ability. Puppet Strings is a *Action. So you can. Must be season the sauce I am thinking of
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Post by subversive on Mar 14, 2019 0:19:14 GMT
Let's be real here: LotF is ball breaking. The problem is NOT his rules. The problem is the opportunity cost of putting him in your list to get his output: 0pts. A 6 point character model or unit with a stack of buffs that high should be able to remove a heavy or a caster. And really he's not casually removing either - camp a few focus/fury and he's not going to get through most of the time. BUT - it doesn't really cost you anything to try for that play, which is crap for your opponent. You go in with a 35% assassination run that also casually removes some support and puts damage on a heavy or BE. Maybe you win the game. If not, you've still put a world of hurt on your enemy. He counters by killing LotF because you can't let him get that off a second time. For the whopping gain of 0pts.
Want to fix LotF? Simple: he can't be taken for free, and costs 7 points.
Want to fix WMH? Stop making themes that get you 18-20 free points of the best stuff when other themes cap out at 9-11 points of barely ok freebies.
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Post by subversive on Mar 14, 2019 0:22:44 GMT
You've never used spectral lash on the pot? A big part of my game plan is working it forward in the early turns until it becomes a credible threat extension mechanism for the mid to late game. Spot removal of flanking elements with the boosted shot and damage are nice as well. Funny thing about puppet strings is you'll never care that it was there until you do and then you REALLY do. So far its saved 2 raven shots from double 1's for me and been a big damage adder when a damage roll goes south on me. This. Reminds me of the people who used to use stones only to double port and never realized they can heal, remove fury, anchor a clutch hellmouth, etc. The Pot is amazeballs.
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Post by snotling on Mar 29, 2019 8:09:34 GMT
But one ravager coming trough shuld not be able to kill 10-15 models no problem. And yes, spreading helps, but after the lines have engaged, spreading isn't always possible.
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