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Post by auraco on Feb 20, 2019 15:03:07 GMT
The Ontario Team Championship is next weekend, it's a pretty big tournament, with more than thirty 5 people team. conflictchamber.com/?event=610Seems like the cornucopia brought khador back into the game with us being the 4th most played faction. Wolves is the most popular theme, with just a bit less than half the lists being wolves list. The rest is a mix of mostly Armored Corps and Jaws of the wolf with a bit of winterguard kommand. No legion of steel in sight. Vlad2 is on top of the popularity scale, no surprise here, he's also run in both wolves and armored corps, again no surprise here, he's always been good at running both lists. The rest of the lists are pretty diverse, there are a couple of casters that are getting played mostly thanks to the cornucopia stuff, I'm thinking mostly Sorscha1 and Zerkova2, really curious to see how they perform. I don't understand all the jaws list though, especially Harkevich being tied for second most popular caster. After Sorscha0 is out I'll get it, but right now it just baffles me. This might be because I have an irrational hatred for Jaws of the wolf and I dislike Harkevich. I feel more confident in my pairing this year than with last year's paring where I just rode butcher3 all day to the final only to get stomped on by Gaspy3 slayerspam. Having played Vlad2 wolves into it, I know it's a match up I can do now. Also a lot less gunlines than last year, last year it was nemo3 and Rashet winds of death everywhere, I think Sorscha3 can work as my dedicated anti gun list. Lots of circle though, in theory Vlad2 wolves works here, but I haven't played the match up yet, I still feel that I have way less hard dodge than last year. So who's comming?
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 20, 2019 15:21:17 GMT
Yeah, there's three Sorscha1 Wolves lists that I saw having a flick through. Nice to see her getting some screen time.
There's a whole bunch of oddities, though; 10 Drakhuns in 11 Armoured Corps lists? Madness.
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Post by benjamini on Feb 20, 2019 15:52:17 GMT
I'm one of the Zerkova 2 Wolves lists, which is something I definitely wouldn't have ever considered before the cornucopia CID! Based on some playtesting I've done, it's been very effective against things I normally struggled to address with my AC/WGK pairing. We'll see what happens in a couple weeks . That being said I was surprised by the Jaws lists too Auraco, it's never been something I have been hugely excited to play. I definitely understand why there is a lot of Wolves and AC (I know I'm playing both ), but I'm kind of surprised WGK has fallen off in terms of popularity.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Feb 20, 2019 16:25:32 GMT
I think the reason for Harkevich is he his a Circle counter. At least thats why I have built him for.
I wanna run Sorcha1 Domm Reavers all day though!
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 20, 2019 16:47:47 GMT
How is Hark a counter? Just too much ARM for a key turn for the Tharn to crack?
Although last time I ran him Hark himself was 18/21 no KD on feat turn, so he can be pretty hard to kill himself if needs be.
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Post by auraco on Feb 20, 2019 16:56:15 GMT
How is Hark a counter? Just too much ARM for a key turn for the Tharn to crack? Although last time I ran him Hark himself was 18/21 no KD on feat turn, so he can be pretty hard to kill himself if needs be. I'm guessing kodiaks, with field marshall repo they can make a cloudwall, prevents tharn from charging, so reduces their damage output. Vent steal also isn't an attack so doesn't trigger rapid healing. Not sure how to deal with the scenario with a jack list though. Tharn is bad in general, but khador can build against them, I'm pretty sure Sorscha1 just stomps on the match up so hard the other guy will just drop his other list. I think I'm fine with Vlad2 Wolves, at least in theory.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 20, 2019 17:50:48 GMT
I would love for the lormahordes community to sit down and dojo our best list pair into Circle (which doesn't disadvantage us into other hotness like Skorne, CG, and Judicators.
I THINK that Z1 Wolves and V2 AC pair as well as anything into that stuff....though it can't cover Gearhart and isn't GREAT into WW (or at least I need a lot more testing to see how Z1 plays with the adjunct and the opportunity to shoot out the stickmen so he doesn't have EASY hell mouth targets.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Feb 20, 2019 17:55:20 GMT
How is Hark a counter? Just too much ARM for a key turn for the Tharn to crack? Although last time I ran him Hark himself was 18/21 no KD on feat turn, so he can be pretty hard to kill himself if needs be. I'm guessing kodiaks, with field marshall repo they can make a cloudwall, prevents tharn from charging, so reduces their damage output. Vent steal also isn't an attack so doesn't trigger rapid healing. Not sure how to deal with the scenario with a jack list though. Tharn is bad in general, but khador can build against them, I'm pretty sure Sorscha1 just stomps on the match up so hard the other guy will just drop his other list. I think I'm fine with Vlad2 Wolves, at least in theory. I don't see those Harkevich lists succeeding as a counter either. The Cloud-Repo "you see nothing" play doesn't work in SR2018, especially against an army with as large a scenario footprint as Devourer's Host. The armor also isn't enough to save the jacks outside of feat turn. I see consistent scenario losses for that list into Dev Host (if they even see Dev host). The greater problem is into Wurmwood or Krueger2. That Harkevich list just gets dumped on then. I agree with you that Sorscha1 seems fantastic against Tharn. My concern is whether she can play into Wurmwood or Krueger2? In some of the pairs where she is in a Wolves of Winter, the answer seems like "maybe." I'd need to see it on the table.
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Post by auraco on Feb 20, 2019 18:13:22 GMT
I'm guessing kodiaks, with field marshall repo they can make a cloudwall, prevents tharn from charging, so reduces their damage output. Vent steal also isn't an attack so doesn't trigger rapid healing. Not sure how to deal with the scenario with a jack list though. Tharn is bad in general, but khador can build against them, I'm pretty sure Sorscha1 just stomps on the match up so hard the other guy will just drop his other list. I think I'm fine with Vlad2 Wolves, at least in theory. I don't see those Harkevich lists succeeding as a counter either. The Cloud-Repo "you see nothing" play doesn't work in SR2018, especially against an army with as large a scenario footprint as Devourer's Host. The armor also isn't enough to save the jacks outside of feat turn. I see consistent scenario losses for that list into Dev Host (if they even see Dev host). The greater problem is into Wurmwood or Krueger2. That Harkevich list just gets dumped on then. I agree with you that Sorscha1 seems fantastic against Tharn. My concern is whether she can play into Wurmwood or Krueger2? In some of the pairs where she is in a Wolves of Winter, the answer seems like "maybe." I'd need to see it on the table. Oh I have absolutely no hope for Harkevich in the current meta, that's why I'm really baffled by him being tied for second place. Wolves of winter is probably going to be Sorscha1's new home, we also just got the adjunct who really helps dealing with the sentry stones that are a good tool into Wolves. Wolves having access to multiple guidance thanks to the koldun lord's loremaster is also something that's going to help, or well, stacking guidance and puppet master on a shooty jack to take care of the sentry stones. Haven't played the match up, but I can see it being better than what a lot of other khador list can do against Wurmwood. The thing with Sorscha1 is that she is so good in her good match ups, that she will very rarely see them on the table. She really skews the pairing process against a lot of dudespam lists (tharn, exalted, primal terror). I like the idea of building her to try to handle her bad match ups, but I was too short on time actually try it on the table before the OTC, so decided to stick with the tried and true Vlad2 wolves and Sorscha3 armored corps.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 20, 2019 18:26:34 GMT
I'm guessing kodiaks, with field marshall repo they can make a cloudwall, prevents tharn from charging, so reduces their damage output. Vent steal also isn't an attack so doesn't trigger rapid healing. Not sure how to deal with the scenario with a jack list though. Tharn is bad in general, but khador can build against them, I'm pretty sure Sorscha1 just stomps on the match up so hard the other guy will just drop his other list. I think I'm fine with Vlad2 Wolves, at least in theory. I don't see those Harkevich lists succeeding as a counter either. The Cloud-Repo "you see nothing" play doesn't work in SR2018, especially against an army with as large a scenario footprint as Devourer's Host. The armor also isn't enough to save the jacks outside of feat turn. I see consistent scenario losses for that list into Dev Host (if they even see Dev host). The greater problem is into Wurmwood or Krueger2. That Harkevich list just gets dumped on then. I agree with you that Sorscha1 seems fantastic against Tharn. My concern is whether she can play into Wurmwood or Krueger2? In some of the pairs where she is in a Wolves of Winter, the answer seems like "maybe." I'd need to see it on the table. Ditto.
I also want to see if Alexia 2 comes through as that would provide a BIT of RFP in the Immortals list. #Iwanttogiveastatueadoomsword
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Feb 20, 2019 18:34:20 GMT
I think it is too early to draw any conclusions, because of a couple things here:
1. Khador is pretty popular in Ontario in general; I think something about frozen northerners appeals to Canadians.
2. Harkevich is (or at least, was) also popular in some areas of Ontario, or at least my little corner. I was playing Harkevich since the dark days of Mk.II, and people in the meta I moved to used to always complain about Harkevich and Khador jacks being OP and being sick of Harkevich. I stopped playing him shortly after Grymkin came out because the ratio of moaning from opponents versus how good he actually was into effective P+S 20-something Skin and Moans was just too much.
So, there may be something going on or it may just be a quirk of the meta. And, of course, just because a lot of people are taking something doesn’t mean it won’t end the tournament with a high win rate.
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 20, 2019 18:39:00 GMT
Its almost like the CID process is working
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Feb 20, 2019 23:52:01 GMT
I actually have a Hypothesis. We could probably run Double Wolves IF one of those lists has a hard Shooting Mitigation Like for example Sorscha_1 Wolves as main with OW2 Wolves to pivot into Gunlines. Still pondering this though. Also, FOR THE MOTHER FiretruckING MOTHERLAND!
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Feb 21, 2019 3:44:00 GMT
I actually have a Hypothesis. We could probably run Double Wolves IF one of those lists has a hard Shooting Mitigation Like for example Sorscha_1 Wolves as main with OW2 Wolves to pivot into Gunlines. Still pondering this though. Also, FOR THE MOTHER FiretruckING MOTHERLAND! Holy crap that’s brilliant. AND, you can pack a lighter bag for a travel tournament. AND, it’s easier to pack/unpack your tray in between rounds. Holy crap...this might just be so silly it’s flipping brilliant.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Feb 21, 2019 4:53:57 GMT
There's 76 slayers in the Cryx lists and 39 marauders in the Khador lists. So I'll assume the marauder will shortly be receiving an errata to make it 12pts... Bonus if the slayer also drops to 9pts Cheers, Dave
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