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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 12, 2019 8:11:14 GMT
So I decided to make this its own thread since it's related to the whole theme not just the Adjunct (which I was excited to pick up).
I took the following list pair, the the plan being I was going to drop Wolves no matter what, as I wanted to test the limits of what it can do, regardless of the matchup. The Sorscha3 list was picked just to cause headaches for my opponent at list selection.
The Zerkova2 list is a list I've been piecing together bit by bit since the CID updates went live. Below I'll give a thought behind each element of the list and my thoughts on it before and after the weekend. At the end I'll go over my rounds, it will be of rough memory as I did not keep any written notes.
[Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24]
- Destroyer [14]
- Destroyer [14]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Koldun Lord [4]
Koldun Lord [4]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Greylord Outriders (min) [10]
Greylord Outriders (min) [10]
Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]
[Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28]
- Kodiak [13]
- Rager [10]
- Rager [10]
- Greylord Adjunct [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Man-O-War Drakhun [9]
Man-O-War Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Strike Tanker [0(5)]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7]
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14]
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
So the elements from the Zerkova2 list:
Destroyer x2: the reasoning behind taking the destroyers was to have a way for her battlegroup to contribute while moving up the table. The jacks have no way to move up the table quick, so my thought was in order to get contributions out of her warjack points I needed warjacks able to contribute at range. The reality of the situation was that the destroyers ended up having to run during important turns in order to contest/score objectives as needed, and their guns were hardly ever being utilized. The range on them can't keep up with the alpha potential and I'd have felt much better with any combination of Kodiaks, Ruin, Devastators, Grolars...basically anything else. My next iteration will be using a Grolar/Berserker battlegroup to help with late game attrition turns.
Adjunct: This guy was money in every game. Free upkeep, extend spell range are just basic that we can get with Sylys, but having access to Guidance was very useful with the amount of Clouds seen set up as terrain in central locations. Not to mention being able to keep LotF VERY honest. Another perk I used in almost every game, was as attrition wore on and my Outriders and Escorts went down, the Adjunct was able to allow the Koldun Lords access to late game Frostbites when needed. I never once cast Blizzard, but there are times I kind of wish I had. He stays, for sure.
Greylord Forgeseer: He was included in the list solely to try out a combo I had in mind and wanted to try out; Forgeseer allowing Koldun Lord access to Hoarfrost and more chances at stationary on models, or POW14 magic attacks. In practice, it didn't quite work out, as the Koldun Lords almost exclusively used either Brittle Frost, Frostbite, or Puppetmaster. The Forge Seer is also completely slower than anything else in the list and was just a 4 point dead weight for the most part. I do think there might be something there with the Hoarfrosts in the right matchups can provide some utility, but it isn't a direction I really want to explore at the moment. Part of my new build involves cutting him to clear the way for maxing out a unit of Outriders.
Koldun Lord: This guy is complete fire. Baller in every game. Having access to both Puppetmaster and Brittle Frost alone makes him worth it, as well as being able to hand out extra Guidance or Frostbites. One thing I really liked was using him to Brittle Frost objectives. In three games I was able to Brittle frost and drop an objective with relative ease. Not to mention the obvious combo of stacking Brittle Frost with Kiss of Lylyss to create POW 16 attacks from most of the army (including doom reavers!). My Math has shown the list can drop an unsuspecting huge base if set up.
Doomreavers + Escort: The frontline of the army. They mostly served as a place for people to unleash their aggression. Turns out, people are afraid of Doomreavers. The easoning for only two units was to allow space for all the Greylords in the list, but the two units, with potential apparation give enough frontline threat to keep lists honest on the approach. I really, really like utilizing the central LoS terrain feature to hide behind, then apparate around it on my following turn. Combat Caster is just plain amazing. So many uses, one I aimed to try, but didn't take advantage of, was casting Fell Curse followed by running up, then casting Frostbite on the feat on unsuspecitng tough/rapid healing models. Both units stay in the list, very much a central part I enjoy.
Outriders: Pretty much as expected, as they only received a point drop. An absolute must with her as they're aimed at being your work horse models. She fixes their accuracy and with access to both Kiss and Brittle Frost, they can hit hard as well. Pow16 sprays can accomplish a lot. My new list involves maxing out one of the units.
Ternion: Great as a free unit. I really liked having two units in the list. Range 10 on Bonds of Woe mattered a lot to help them keep distance on targets. I also really like having a non frost damage attack option in the list. Blizzard was useful as well to play off of clouds or existing LoS blockers. And Ice Cage is always great to have around, as MAT7 Doomreavers are decent, but once things get to Def13 and above...you REALLY want those swords to connect.
Aiyana and Holt + Valachev: They still do all the things they've done before. Just now Holt has the potential for POW 16 guns. The other thing I really liked, was having a model/unit armor debuff vs the model debuff on Brittle Frost. Sure, the Koldun Lord can replace Aiyana in assassination runs, but for general game situations, it was great having both options. Right after I finished playing for the tournament, I wanted to cut them. But the more I thought about it, their game to game impact I feel is currently worth the inclusion.
So it got late and I'm sure half that wasn't very coherent, but I'll quickly post the modified list I plan to try next, taking in the notes I posted above:
[Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24]
- Berserker [8]
- Grolar [18]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Koldun Lord [4]
Koldun Lord [4]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Greylord Outriders (min) [10]
Greylord Outriders (max) [17]
Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]
Real quick before sleep: The battlegroup could quickly become double kodiak. I really am aiming to take full advantage of the stat swings from the Ternion, Lords, and A+H. The Grolar can keep up with the list better than the Destroyers, and in later rounds has the potential for a minimum of 4 initials taking advantage of -2/-4 ARM debuffs. I know, RAT4, but that's what Ice Cages are for. The same logic follows the Kodiaks, since they can posses up to 4 "initials" as well and can keep up better with the army. Honorable mentions to maybe try out either devastator or Juggernaught, but I'm saving those for after giving the Grolar a fair shot.
I'll include the actual game notes tomorrow, but it's bed time for me now.
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Post by borderprince on Feb 12, 2019 9:29:59 GMT
Outriders: ... they're aimed at being your work horse models. I see what you did there  .
Looking forward to the reports.
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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 12, 2019 17:38:51 GMT
Alrgiht, I'll get started and try to describe the match ups as best I can from memory:
Round 1: Menoth
His two lists were High Reclaimer and Harbinger. Neither list looked particularly good into Sorscha3 but I wanted to try Wolves, so down they go. He picks harby who is armed with double Idrians, a monk, two champions, and a Judicator.
Scenario is Destruction
I go first and take as much board space as I can, there's a cloud in the middle of the table I hide as many doomreavers behind as I can as idrians are just licking their chops to start shooting. Destroyer on my left runs up, one unit of outriders flank up hard on my right hand side around a building. Left hand side moves up somewhat centrally on my left. I'm aiming to try and get as much work done on his units next turn as possible, to try and force a big attrition swing.
His turn 1 he moves up Harby and feats, toeing the circle zone centered in the middle of the table. Idrians then maneuver around, picking up any doomreavers they gain line of sight on before repositioning back to withing Martyr range. Monk toes my right rectangle zone.
My turn 2 - Turns out Harby's feat is really good against an army of ARM 13 or 15 models. I devise a plan to attempt the assassination on his caster this turn, but it involves getting him to martyr down to less than 8hp, followed by running my grey lord Forge Seer up and using him as an arc node. It's not a high odds, but if she gets super greedy on maryrs, I go for it. So I start picking away at the perimeter of his army, he ends up taking 7 damage from martyr before I believe realizing what is happen, so lets the rest of his stuff die off. He was camping 8, had I remembered I have this neat spell called Spectral Fire, I might have gone for it, as if I feat, I can fire off a fully boosted POW 18 and an unboosted 17, with puppet strings, twice! I might add. In the end I didn't go for it and pass the turn.
His turn 2 - Harby picks up a majority of the doomreavers, who had positioned to try and get some hits in on Idrians the previous turn. I also lose an Outrider to a Champion on my left, as well as another being engaged by the champ. RHS Outriders were untouched, and I'm unsure what happened to anything else, but I was starting to fall well behind on attrition. To protect Harby, he moves her over behind a forest and the judicator, who is B2B with said forest. Judicator gets no magic. Harby heals to full and drops to 2 focus (!!!).
My turn 3- Well, she messed up and now it's go time. The idea behind positioning in the forest was a good idea, but the only safe place from Zerkova2 feat is distance, and he did not have it. I take a breath and figure things out. On my left, I can get an outrider and a ternion in position, so I kill the model in the way and do just that. Ternion is base to base with the Judicator, with the Outrider ready to spray the Ternion from behind. On my right, I use fell curse to deny martyr and clear out the Idrians in my way to my arc node (Outrider) can get into position, along with I think another Outrider and one ternion. I move forward, feat and with puppetstrings going everywhere, Harby goes down with attacks to spare.
Post match thought: My initial dojo of this matchup had me thinking it would be relatively easy, as with fell curse and boosted magic attacks I get around both of harbinger's big abilities (feat and Martyr). However, double Idrians are nasty into the list. They did miles of work.
As for the Zerkova2 list, it ran as smooth as butter. I loved having so many options at my disposal, not to mention anti martyr tech to get some solid work done. Puppet strings in combination with her feat turn is just...on another level. You can realistically puppet strings Zerkova and 1 unit of Outriders, feat cast spells with a model from said unit and Zerkova, then reapply it if you need to. It's such an amazing ability for dice correction. Not to mention the Lord also doubles as a work horse model as well. Apparaition, SP9 pathfinder Outriders just get anywhere I need them to. I see the list having a high skill ceiling, but high reward as well, as placement and maneuvering is everything.
Will post the next in a bit, back to work.
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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 12, 2019 23:37:35 GMT
Round 2: Crucible Guard
Once again, AK might have been the better drop, but I decided to go with Wolves again just to try and get more practice.
Match up is Gearheart vs Zerkova2. I lose the roll to go first.
I pick a side to deny Gearheart any hiding places, and deploy my Outriders with the Arc Node in it directly across from him, in the hopes he spends his stack and advances.
His turn 1 - everything moves up somewhat aggressively, I have rocketmen to my left, CGI right center, min Storm Troopers and a pair of retaliators center left, suppressor to my right and 4 trancers dispersed throughout.
My turn 1 - He did what I wanted, but was camping 3. I decide to try a combo assassination/army wipe by planning out a bottom of 1 feat. I apparate the arc node unit, everything runs, one unit of doomreavers hides behind a forest to try and live to see the next turn, I forget to activate/move the Destroyer on my right AND A+H (doh!). On my left, the two ternion units and a Koldun Lord pick up 7 rocketmen during feat, I whiff dice into Gearheart and leave him on 10 health, I can't remember. Outriders pick up 6 CGI, Zerkova, rolling 4 dice with reroll fails to crit stationary the three storm troopers who were base to base with eachother (still kills the one hit). I did no damage to any jack.
His turn 2 - his crack back was brutal, the two remaining rocketmen picked up 4 ternion, a trancers slammed one into another, taking the last 2 out. Central doomreaver unit was erased, the one I had hidden behind the forest was reduced to 3 models, he ambushes Anastasia but forgets to activate her. All Outriders are taken out also.
The rest of the game was a slight blurr at this point, but what ended up happening, was I was in the process of being tabled, when an assassination chance opened up. I was able to charge Zerkova up, and wit the exrta range from the Adjunct able to tag Gearheart with 2 Hoarfrosts, the second one needing a boosted 13 to kill, and getting it.
MAJOR Caveat and point of embarassment for me in this match up - my opponent played a solid game, and i played a very sloppy one. I even went so far as to cheat and I feel I need to admit it. I am not sure why I thought it, but during this one particular match, I played under the assumption that the Adjunct had Harmonious Exaltation. Maybe it was due to playing Crucible Guard all day the day before, but it was an honest mistake, and once i realized it I informed the TO, but the next round was already underway and they were unable to do anything, though I did receive a warning. It did not play a roll in the assassination, as I activated Zerkova before the Adjunct on the last turn and did the assassination "legit" but I did use harmonious on the feat turn and feal extremely bad for that. My opponent was a great guy and he didn't deserve to be cheated like that.
With that out of the way, this was another rough match up for the Wolves of Winter. With 3 jacks with sprays, CGI, and rocketmen, the attack volume for Gearheart was intense. I feel the one big mistake was splitting out attacks at Gearheart during the feat turn, had I gone all in on an attrition play, I might have been able to reduce him to just jacks, about 4ish CGI, and a couple trancers, which I should be able to manage. Big lesson learned to avoid the greedy play.
Game 3: Circle
He has Iona and Mohsar, so gogo Zerkova again. Match up ends up being Mohsar vs Zerkova2.
This game goes very fast. I go second again and deploy the same strategy against Mohsar as I did against Gearheart - if he gets greedy with pillars, I plan to punish.
Top of 1 - Mohsar spends his stack on Mirage and pillars and move forward 5 (!!!). Everything else advances and stays out of threat on doom reavers
My turn 1 - My plan WAS to bottom of 1 feat on his bloodtrackers, LotF, Caul, and 1 unit of blood pack, but there was a no camp Mohsar within range of my arc node's unit of outriders! I rushed the assassination, and did not put up puppetmaster on either Zerkova, or the Outrider unit before feating, which proved to be a huge mistake. I start with Zerkova, who once again throws a 4 dice Hoarfrost, and fails again to stick the crit, but does 12 damage to mohsar. The three outriders, between poor attack and poor damage rolls, did 1 more point of damage, leaving him on 2 boxes. I have 2 focus left on Zerkova, so fire off a last chance Spectral Fire, needing what I thought was a 6 on damage (dice off 4), and getting it. Turns out my count was wrong and Mohsar had 3 boxes left, so he lives on 1.
Top of 2 - I get eaten by LoTF.
Post match thoughts - the most disappointing game of the weekend. I had an easy win delivered to me on a silver platter, had I put out the puppet masters, this game would have been done and doner. This feels like an easy matchup for the list, the tharn want no part of spray8 pow 12s that ignore tough and healing (Fell Curse). I really needed to just slow down, take a breath and execute. I feel this list can play into most circle matchups. Threat of assassination keeps them honest, and the threat distances are enough to outclass most of their list. The one bit of tech I lament not trying out, was sacraficing the arc node Outrider to take out LoTF top/bottom of 1 by either stationarying or outright killing him.
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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 12, 2019 23:43:44 GMT
Round 4: Cygnar
I got to face the 1 Cygnar player that showed up! The match up ends up being Stryker2 vs Zerkova2.
Stryker2 list had double storm lances, stormblades, Laddimore, a Firefly, Lancer, and a couple other odds and ends.
This game isn't worth a full turn by turn - I make the mistake of mathing out Stryker2's feat distance wrong and he's able to get into my whole army. I try to crack back and take out almost all the arcane shielded and mini feated infantry with doom reavers, but my POW12s were really lacking against the stormblades. I ended up being boxed out on scenario and taking the L.
This matchup would have been much different had I been a little more reserved with my top of 1 running. hanging everything about 2" farther back. I blame it being my last game of 2 day at a convention, but in reality it was just inexperience in the match up.
One thing I learned from all the games, was even in "bad match ups" which I feel both the Crucible Guard and Menoth match ups were, the list can still fight back in them, but requires some very crisp play to do so. I'm excited to try out the next evolution of the list I posted in the first post. And I'm excited for the theme in general. The synergies between all the different models in the list really make for some dynamic options turn to turn.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 13, 2019 3:43:42 GMT
That was a good read, thanks for posting it!
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Post by sand20go on Feb 13, 2019 20:55:19 GMT
Round 4: Cygnar I got to face the 1 Cygnar player that showed up! The match up ends up being Stryker2 vs Zerkova2. Stryker2 list had double storm lances, stormblades, Laddimore, a Firefly, Lancer, and a couple other odds and ends. This game isn't worth a full turn by turn - I make the mistake of mathing out Stryker2's feat distance wrong and he's able to get into my whole army. I try to crack back and take out almost all the arcane shielded and mini feated infantry with doom reavers, but my POW12s were really lacking against the stormblades. I ended up being boxed out on scenario and taking the L. This matchup would have been much different had I been a little more reserved with my top of 1 running. hanging everything about 2" farther back. I blame it being my last game of 2 day at a convention, but in reality it was just inexperience in the match up. One thing I learned from all the games, was even in "bad match ups" which I feel both the Crucible Guard and Menoth match ups were, the list can still fight back in them, but requires some very crisp play to do so. I'm excited to try out the next evolution of the list I posted in the first post. And I'm excited for the theme in general. The synergies between all the different models in the list really make for some dynamic options turn to turn. I love the fact that you faced this matchup which is essentially the quasi-mirror in what their feats do ;-) Stryker is one of the favorites for a couple of guys in my meta - they love overloading and then hitting you with a couple of P+S 26 wacks. |
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