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Post by onijet01 on Feb 8, 2019 9:43:29 GMT
Im gonna be trying this list saturday. I think manifest destiny on some light chickens can be good. conflictchamber.com/?c4201b_-0UnUd-331t3b3b1v1v0tf02Y2Y3232Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Black Industries !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Rahera 1] Captain Rahera, Terror of the Wailing Sea [+28] - Reaper [13] - Malice [15] - Reaper [13] - Scavenger [0(7)] - Scavenger [0(7)] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Soul Trapper [1] Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges (min) [8] Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges (min) [8] Cephalyx Overlords [8] Cephalyx Overlords [8]
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Feb 8, 2019 16:01:48 GMT
I don’t think she works in any Cryx Theme except Slaughter Fleet. She has no Feat in Dark Host, Ghost Fleet, or Infernal Machines nor do I think her spell list carries her in those themes.
The only models in Black Industries her Feat works on are Cephalyx & Iron Mongers. BI doesn’t really need Windstorm when it already has Carapace, we don’t have great jacks for taking advantage of Black Spot outside the Colossals which prefer playing in Slaughter Fleet, and building an all jack Force for Manifest Destiny seems like a trap since she’s so Focus starved.
Scourge seems like a good fit until you realize Rahera has no armor fixing, and Satyxis are pretty pillowfisted without the standard cryx -2 Armor Debuff on top of Dark Shroud.
Slaughter Fleet is Rahera's natural home. You get Focus support in the form of Misery Cages & Blood Priestess. You get survival assistance allowing you to play more aggressively in the form of Blood Priestess, Axiara’s Dodge plan, & all the clouds generated by Smog Belchers & Dirge Seers. You get good Ranged units that can take advantage of Black Spot. Most importantly you actually have armor fixing in the form of Ragman + Boarding Party & the Gang Fighter benefit. I’m not sure what the optimal battlegroup is between Stalker farm or Kraken. Kraken makes better use of Black Spot and smashes armor harder, but Stalkers that threaten 15” with possible Ragman aura, Gang Fighter, & Manifest Destiny seem very good.
My only issues with her are: 1) She’s so focus starved that I don’t know if she can actually function 2) her Feat is straight dogshit. If you’re opponent has mass RFP, is playing little to no living models, or has rules like Self-Sacrifice or Sanguine Bond that deny destroyed triggers, her Feat does absolutely nothing. Critical Decapitation is so situational it’s painful. The odds you even get a Crit in the first place is 13.89% at best since she has no way to give units boosts to hit. On the off chance you do manage to score a Crit, decapitation isn’t even that great a benefit for most of the units she’ll be talking who struggle to brake armor in the first place. This portion is just a bad Sorscha2 Feat.
Honestly the first change I want to see made to her is to make the Feat living models just gain Decapitation and see if that’s busted or if it’s just worse Sorscha2 Feat with a reanimating angle added to it.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 8, 2019 16:56:36 GMT
I definitely agree with two things there Deller, she is super focused starved with her spell list and being shoe horned into taking a larger battlegroup. At least black industries has warwitches to help with the load. Though as you pointed out, there are options that will help.
Also, I agree, seeing as how the feat is only living warrior models, a definite downgrade to how I read it the first time, its not going to do much. I mean it wont even affect Gerlak, the one guy I really want it on for a pacman/recursion chain that sounds super fun.
But if she keeps her really good spell list, I am okay with a lack luster feat. I understand what they are trying to do, and that is present building options without focusing too much in one area. I understand, but it makes it hard to use her entire package. You have to pick a part of it and go for it. Not ideal when we have so many good casters in the bull pen to begin with.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Feb 8, 2019 17:38:42 GMT
I definitely agree with two things there Deller, she is super focused starved with her spell list and being shoe horned into taking a larger battlegroup. At least black industries has warwitches to help with the load. Though as you pointed out, there are options that will help. Also, I agree, seeing as how the feat is only living warrior models, a definite downgrade to how I read it the first time, its not going to do much. I mean it wont even affect Gerlak, the one guy I really want it on for a pacman/recursion chain that sounds super fun. But if she keeps her really good spell list, I am okay with a lack luster feat. I understand what they are trying to do, and that is present building options without focusing too much in one area. I understand, but it makes it hard to use her entire package. You have to pick a part of it and go for it. Not ideal when we have so many good casters in the bull pen to begin with. Gerlak gets the Crit Decap portion at the moment, but no, he doesnt get the Blood Bound. I’m fine with Casters having a lackluster feat, but as it is, Rahera basically doesn’t have a feat at all. I consider a Feat like Mortenebra2’s Feat lackluster. I consider Rahera’s proposed feat to be prerework Deneghra2 Feat bad. In only works against specific types of models and it gets straight up blanked by at least a dozen rules in the game. If they’re going to give Rahera a situational feat that can be straight up countered to the point it’s unusable then it needs to be more like Terminus’s Feat (always amazing into hordes of living dudes with souls, useless into the likes of Zaal, undead lists, or jackspam) with high highs to balance out the low. Right now Rahera’s Feat is sometimes mediocre, sometimes useless.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 8, 2019 17:50:13 GMT
That is funny that you compare it to Mortenabra 2's feat, as the last time I used her, I ended up winning with the feat and my opponent went on and on how over powered and broken it was. Haha.
But yes, I agree on pretty much all those counts. It would be very difficult to get any mileage out of her feat even from someone like Gerlak as their the targets of choice for those units/solos are going to be single wound troops that crit decapitation doesn't matter against anyhow. As far as giving gorgers the ability to revive themselves by killing other single wound models, its basically the old bane attachment mini feat, where you had to kill to replenish. I didn't like it then either. Though to be fair, banes had an easier time at killing things.
In my meta, the feat doesn't really exist. I face either multiwound models under shield guard and protected by a battle engine that gives them an attack before they die and removes them from play preventing my effect, or warjack spam on a regular basis, neither of which she really wants to see.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 18, 2019 12:31:40 GMT
So, I assume you guys noticed by now, but they changed Windstorm to Rough Seas, so it works on friendlies in control instead of enemies, then they made it -3" range instead of -5, which is fair.
The feat was changed to a free Manifest Destiny and Sprint for everything. This made me sad because nothing in her kit, except liking SFR, made her take combined arms anymore, but made me excited for playing her with a mix of Stalkers and Seethers to sprint with. Then they changed it to only affect living models and it was sad again, because it doesn't actually do a lot for the P+S 11 infantry she will be bringing.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 18, 2019 18:02:10 GMT
Living models on a cryx caster is super limiting but I can see why they are doing it, trying to make her a living pirate/merc caster more than a cryx one. Manifest destiny will be really good, but you said that affect only living as well? Or just the feat in general affects only living? I have not seen the new write up.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 19, 2019 7:43:14 GMT
Living models on a cryx caster is super limiting but I can see why they are doing it, trying to make her a living pirate/merc caster more than a cryx one. Manifest destiny will be really good, but you said that affect only living as well? Or just the feat in general affects only living? I have not seen the new write up. Manifest Destiny is still the same. Everything she has works on everything, just the Sprint part of her feat is limited to living. They keep trying to use the feat to shoe horn her into "combined arms", but it's just not compelling enough in the first place.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 21, 2019 8:50:59 GMT
The last week had quite some changes. Her feat now allows everyone (living and jacks) in her control area to make a basic ranged or melee attack, with the caveat that the target is also in her control area. They took Blood Boon off her weapon and moved "Blood Weaver" to herself, so it triggers off any melee attack and can trigger as many times as you kill something. She now has an Elite Cadre for Schardes and Privateers so they get Sprint, but she lost Tactician. She picked up Gang Fighter so she has more consistent personal output, but lost critical Decapitation for it. This is a fair trade, but does make both of her weapons rulesless, which I find disappointing.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 21, 2019 11:27:03 GMT
She has enough personal rules to make up for it, and though bloodweaver may be a trap to try and get the most use out of it, I think it would be really fun to just charge into a group of single wound infantry and slaughter as many as you can launching spells after each one. What is on her current spell list that is spammable. I remember her not having a very impressive attack spell. Bleed?
The feat is kind of Haley 1 and that could be really good in Cryx. That makes her battlegroup really dangerous for a turn. Sounds like a clock eater feat though.
I like sprint a lot, but I also liked tactician with the medium based models we had access to. That makes her more want to take the small based pirates. I still would rather take bloodgorgers or marauders I think.
I prefer gang fighter to crit decapitation, just more reliable and it does both accuracy and damage for all of your melee attacks.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 21, 2019 12:00:33 GMT
She has enough personal rules to make up for it, and though bloodweaver may be a trap to try and get the most use out of it, I think it would be really fun to just charge into a group of single wound infantry and slaughter as many as you can launching spells after each one. What is on her current spell list that is spammable. I remember her not having a very impressive attack spell. Bleed? The feat is kind of Haley 1 and that could be really good in Cryx. That makes her battlegroup really dangerous for a turn. Sounds like a clock eater feat though. I like sprint a lot, but I also liked tactician with the medium based models we had access to. That makes her more want to take the small based pirates. I still would rather take bloodgorgers or marauders I think. I prefer gang fighter to crit decapitation, just more reliable and it does both accuracy and damage for all of your melee attacks. The only spammable spell is indeed Bleed, but after upkeeping Escort she could still cast Rough Seas, Manifest Destiny and Black Spot for free. I just like the idea of charging into a group of, say, 3 models and as you slaughter all of them, their buddies behind them are dropping to Bleeds and healing your caster (will never happen, but I like the idea anyway) I hope to get a test in, will see how the feat does, but I like it in principle. We have Tactician anyway. I played one game with her before and it was slightly nicer to have the Scharde Pirates move through Rahera before I had to run Axiara closer, but, you know, I was still playing Scharde Pirates I agree that she has enough special rules and I like Gang Fighter a lot more than critical Decapitation, but it just makes her named weapons so bland. I feel like she could've kept crit Decapitation as a flavour ability for instance. Maybe a chain attack of some sort. Right now I'm thinking about testing the following, most of the models are in there for testing purposes and I probably wouldn't play them in a "real" game, mostly Scharde Pirates, DSM and Gorman. Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Slaughter Fleet Raiders !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Rahera 1] Captain Rahera, Terror of the Wailing Sea [+28] - Nightwretch [7] - Kharybdis [17] - Stalker [8] - Stalker [8] - Stalker [8] - Satyxis Blood Priestess [4] Axiara Wraithblade [0(6)] General Gerlak Slaughterborn [0(6)] Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4] Misery Cage [2] Blighted Trollkin Marauders (max) [15] - Jussika Bloodtongue [5] Scharde Pirates (max) [14] - Scharde Pirate Officer [4] The Devil's Shadow Mutineers [7]
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 20, 2019 8:24:12 GMT
She's now up in War Room, completely unchanged from what she was at the end of CID as far as I can see, assuming CMD 6 is a typo. I'm a bit disappointed they didn't add some interesting effects to her (melee) weapons. If the CMD 6 is not a typo, then it's really bad.
That said, she was quite fun to play during the CID, but doesn't bring a lot that Cryx actually needs. The only (faction) models benefiting from Sprint are Scharde Pirates, which are kind of bad in-faction, the Devil's Shadow Mutineers, which will usually be on a flank and out of range, and the Dirge Seers, who would like it I guess. If she wants to fuel jacks, she will want to use Blood Weaver on basically her whole spell list, which might be difficult to say the least, especially since Tough can really screw her over. She will probably want efficient jacks like Seethers in BI to dial them up, or a lot of Stalkers in SFR. I'm not sure if I would bother with infantry in BI as she only uses them to trigger her own Gang Fighter, and a medium-sized battle group might do in SFR. Some shooting elements are nice to have because of Black Spot and her feat, but not an absolute necessity.
What lists are you looking forward to playing with her?
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Post by tiberius on Jun 24, 2019 10:49:06 GMT
She reminds me of a piratey version of Thyra. You are right, it seems like she needed some ability on her weapons and she really needs to be using bloodweaver with her focus so tight and her spell list so large; which means putting her in the thick of it. I could see her with a pair of leviathans or a pack of stalkers all working out well. Even a kraken, but for the feat, you want to leverage number of attacks and that would just not be worth it. Black spot really makes any of our ranged jacks sing though.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 24, 2019 11:50:21 GMT
I've played her with a pack of Stalkers and it's really quite an investment to make them work, especially if you don't get Bloodweaver off. If you can charge some DEF 12 ARM 15 chump(s), then that's great and you can basically allocate everything you want. But as soon as Tough or slightly higher than average base stats come into play, it's a lot more risky as you need to factor in that you might have to boost or buy attacks, or even hard cast Manifest Destiny (which you will often still want to do, because it affects her) Then it starts getting more difficult to allocate to said Stalkers and even then P+S 12, even with MD, isn't all that impressive.
I'm thinking she will be good for focus efficient things like Seethers though.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Jul 3, 2019 5:50:30 GMT
She's been fixed to CMD 9.
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