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Post by jagius021 on Feb 6, 2019 4:47:08 GMT
So my play group has integrated with a larger, and much better group. We've all noticed improvement in our games, but I am looking to get better. Now the best way is probably just more games, and I intend to do that, but maybe you fine folks can help a bit. I find that I have a hard time recognizing the weaknesses of a list before it's too late. As a result, it seems to be that I can't identify a good pairing until it's tournament time and I get smashed.
Do you have a good rule of thumb for your 2 list pairing?
What ways do you categorize them?
Do you prefer to "ask the question" or "have the answers" with your lists? One each?
To give some background, I have been mostly playing rasheth with two supreme guardians. I feel very comfortable with the list. The list only has about 6 guns in it, so it lacks shooting. But whenever I make a list that I think would compliment it, I still would rather just run rasheth immortals.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 6, 2019 20:37:25 GMT
Would you share your list?
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Post by jagius021 on Feb 8, 2019 0:00:00 GMT
War Room Army
Skorne - fatty supreme
Theme: The Exalted 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Dominar Rasheth - WB: +28 - Aptimus Marketh - PC: 0 - Cyclops Raider - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Agonizer - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Cyclops Shaman - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Supreme Guardian - PC: 16 Supreme Guardian - PC: 16
Ancestral Guardian - PC: 5 Ancestral Guardian - PC: 0 Extoller Novititate - PC: 2 Extoller Novititate - PC: 2 Hakaar the Destroyer - PC: 0
Immortals - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Extoller Advocate - PC: 3 Immortals - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Extoller Advocate - PC: 3
THEME: The Exalted ---
GENERATED : 02/07/2019 18:59:35 BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
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Post by jagius021 on Feb 8, 2019 0:02:26 GMT
A small point about the list is some small variations I haven't been able to pin down as being significant either way; is having marketh for extra clouds vs extoller and an extra novitiate. Both are pretty useful but otherwise the list stays pretty consistent
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 8, 2019 13:48:38 GMT
I've been wanting to to try Rasheth with Exalted for some time now. Given that list, I'd be worrird about having my SGs properly covered by Agonizers. Have you had an issue with it?
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Post by jagius021 on Feb 8, 2019 16:37:36 GMT
Typically people try to focus down one at a time, so camping the Aggy behind one is easy to do and keeps him safe from most threats. I also like him for his Animus. It's really corner case but useful. However I have considered the merit of dropping him in favor of another shaman.
Also, double sg is super silly under rasheth. Having two eliminates the order of activation issues with returning guys to the table, and so far my opponents haven't been able to one round an entire unit so having 2 units of immortals has been fine.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 8, 2019 18:11:48 GMT
To answer your earlier question, I consider Skorne to be largely an "answers" question with one important question: Can you kill enough of us to prevent us from killing you? As a faction we rarely have problems getting through your defenses and killing you. Occasionally defense spam works and that's about it. So we have bring as many answers as we can to your control-tech:
Clouds or Stealth? Extoller Tough no KD? Masters of War Soul-collecting? Supreme Guardian Place/push? Battle Engines, Exalted, Tibbers
So on. My favorite "question" casters are the Xerxeses. Both ram a may like nasty question up the field: Kill enough or we will end you.
So my pairings are usually a caster who asks that simple but tough to answer question (usually Xerxeses, but now Makeda3 also) followed by an "answers" list (Rasheth, usually)
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Feb 8, 2019 22:58:02 GMT
I tend to bring a try to win list and a try not to lose list. I bring something with a specific game plan and alot of offensive potential. Then I try to pair it with a supper tanky list with layered buffs and recursion and alot of scenario scoring/contesting models.
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Post by jagius021 on Feb 9, 2019 16:03:16 GMT
That was well said Gordo, thank you. I just played my first reworked mak3da list as a joke recently and actually liked it. I spammed savages because A. Sometimes spam works and B. When else would I use the 6 I own? What I learned from it was that 2 aren't bad. But don't spam them haha. I haven't played xerxis 1 in a while, I have difficulty with focus 5 casters-i get far too greedy. I'll have to craft a list and put him back on the table though. Are cetrati with vorkesh useful under him?
And bloodspatter I like the idea of just making sure list that tries not to lose. Some of my best games were ones where I was like "this dude across from me is way better of a player than I, let's try not to lose as badly" and end up playing really well. I should try building a list to suite that and see what I learned from from it.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on Feb 11, 2019 14:55:47 GMT
That was well said Gordo, thank you. I just played my first reworked mak3da list as a joke recently and actually liked it. I spammed savages because A. Sometimes spam works and B. When else would I use the 6 I own? What I learned from it was that 2 aren't bad. But don't spam them haha. I haven't played xerxis 1 in a while, I have difficulty with focus 5 casters-i get far too greedy. I'll have to craft a list and put him back on the table though. Are cetrati with vorkesh useful under him? And bloodspatter I like the idea of just making sure list that tries not to lose. Some of my best games were ones where I was like "this dude across from me is way better of a player than I, let's try not to lose as badly" and end up playing really well. I should try building a list to suite that and see what I learned from from it. So the "Skorne coach" in my area forced me to play Cetrati with X1. I absolutely despise them but... They do force the question well: Crack through this or we will end you. Simply put, a brick of them escorts X1 and Tibbers up the center of the field, providing both the cover they need to crush whatever the enemy puts up. Thanks to Vorkesh they can't just cripple them with spells either. The list, however, REALLY REALLY needs Swordsmen in it. You need something that absolutely CRUSHES offensively to kill enough and does it well for their points, because Cetrat are crazy expensive for your little they ever do. Usually I prefer Karax for this role instead, but the are too many specific anti 1-wound infantry techs out there for them to really be relied on like Cetrati can. TLDR: yes Cetrati can be good as long as the rest of your list is better (includes Swordsmen)
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Feb 20, 2019 1:33:54 GMT
Focus on a small number of lists. Practice them as often as possible. Change no more than 20 points of models between games, and try your best not to even change that more than every other game. That way you can identify what the impact of your changes are. There is a huge thing to be said for deep familiarity at this game.
This is a very good strat for general improvement, but be aware it's also prone to burnout. To that end it's best to make sure the 4 lists or so you focus on are lists that you have a lot of passion for whether for style, mechanics, visuals, whatever. A list you love and have a ton of passion for and have practiced until it's ingrained in you is better than any meta-chasing endeavors.
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mazog
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Walking and talking
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Post by mazog on Feb 21, 2019 0:53:14 GMT
Word. I love Jarl Skuld's sculpt and fluff, so I play him a lot. I also spent the summer practicing Grissel1 because I thought she was likely to be underrated. I took her to a local tournament and took third place, I think. If a meta list looks fun, practice it with people who don't mind. I tend to stay away from the meta lists because I can outplay a lot of my local meta and combining that with a brutal list makes it very easy to tilt. If I want to practice a serious list I will bring another list and let my opponent choose which to play against as I don't enjoy roflstomping while giving an NPE.
One trick I've read about for improving steamroller skill is to have a convention of always bringing pairs and discussing the matchups, then playing the one that seems most even to the two of you. You might end up getting a lot of practice with your off-list, but this game is all about the community.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 21, 2019 14:59:51 GMT
Word. I love Jarl Skuld's sculpt and fluff, so I play him a lot. I also spent the summer practicing Grissel1 because I thought she was likely to be underrated. I took her to a local tournament and took third place, I think. If a meta list looks fun, practice it with people who don't mind. I tend to stay away from the meta lists because I can outplay a lot of my local meta and combining that with a brutal list makes it very easy to tilt. If I want to practice a serious list I will bring another list and let my opponent choose which to play against as I don't enjoy roflstomping while giving an NPE. One trick I've read about for improving steamroller skill is to have a convention of always bringing pairs and discussing the matchups, then playing the one that seems most even to the two of you. You might end up getting a lot of practice with your off-list, but this game is all about the community. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS bring a pairing. The game as it stands right now is meant to be played that way. Unless you are just doing your first x number of games with a list to just get used to its rules and model placement, you should be playing with a pairing. And encourage your opponent to do the same. Playing matchups that would never happen will do little to teach you anything.
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Post by jagius021 on Feb 21, 2019 20:13:55 GMT
I have been trying to figure out a good way of assessing what to pair with what. Like for example, my favorite list right now is rasheth with double nacho Supremes guardians in The Exalted. My initial bthought was "bring ranged" as a pairing. But trying other ones doesn't really match well. I think the best I have to bring is a hexy2 list with the turtle and a bunch of beasts to use as assassination vectors.
The other idea is to try to specifically counter lists that give rasheth an issue but that has been hard to figure out as well because then it sort of seems like the answer is a different rasheth list.
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mazog
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Post by mazog on Feb 21, 2019 23:37:54 GMT
What gives Rasheth a hard time? It's not my faction and I think I've beaten him, but seriously, what does he not want to see across the table? It looks like he can handle def, arm, and boxes with ease. Maybe he doesn't like control stuff?
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