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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 1, 2019 17:28:18 GMT
I am actually unsure if OW2 is an acceptable answer into specifically Gearheart MO. With snipe the CGI are still range 11 even under Windstorm. The Retaliator, Suppressor, and even the Vulcan largely don't care about it either. I'm not sure what tech she's really bringing to give a leg up in the matchup. Obviously try it out, and maybe I'm underestimating OW2's impact in the game.
Maybe try something like Malakov2? Prowl on well spaced doomreavers with clouds means only the Guidance'd model can target them (that and sprays), and might just buy you more table space, as the melee threat of his list is pretty minimal.
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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 1, 2019 17:39:39 GMT
Or, you just run the following list and shoot off his army, and maybe even his Vulcan in one turn, since CG has absolutely awful magic defense: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KeW7p7snj8h8hnf89nf89nhnh8M8IKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24] - Destroyer [14] - Kodiak [13] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] |
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932 
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Post by Ganso on Feb 1, 2019 17:42:48 GMT
I know certain CG players are terrified of OW2 wolves coming along and breaking their faces in. Try her out. She's proper good. I think I am going to have to (Ganso sniggers). Khador is just too vulnerable to high value shooting. Always has been. My work here is done |
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Post by michael on Feb 1, 2019 17:45:06 GMT
Or, you just run the following list and shoot off his army, and maybe even his Vulcan in one turn, since CG has absolutely awful magic defense: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KeW7p7snj8h8hnf89nf89nhnh8M8IKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24] - Destroyer [14] - Kodiak [13] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Uh... Yeah. How are you one-rounding a colossal with spells? And how are you doing this before they blow away your army of ~13/13 dudes on the approach? I know, I know I said I was done with this thread. I have held off on responding to a lot of stuff for the last few days... but this? Sorry. You need to show your work, here. |
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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 1, 2019 18:04:46 GMT
Or, you just run the following list and shoot off his army, and maybe even his Vulcan in one turn, since CG has absolutely awful magic defense: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KeW7p7snj8h8hnf89nf89nhnh8M8IKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24] - Destroyer [14] - Kodiak [13] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Uh... Yeah. How are you one-rounding a colossal with spells? And how are you doing this before they blow away your army of ~13/13 dudes on the approach? I know, I know I said I was done with this thread. I have held off on responding to a lot of stuff for the last few days... but this? Sorry. You need to show your work, here. Pretty easy, actually. CG has no magic defense of any kind, and no resistance to cold. So against a Vulcan (ARM 19 58 boxes). Feat turn consist of: Running everything as far forward as possible (no surprise) with Telgesh Mark on an Outrider. Feat, Apply Brittle Frost and Kiss of Lyliss. (Both have a 22" range on hitting a target with it). 10 Outrider sprays at now dice off 3: 40 damage on average. Valachev spray (if he didn't have to zephyr) + 2 escorts and Adjunct + second Lord spray: 20 damage on average We're already there, and haven't even done Zerkova2's dice off 1 Hoarfrost, boosted for a nice 9.5 damage on average., then a potential second one (since the adjunct upkept Mark) for a potential extra 6 damage. The "slowpoke" in this setting is the destroyer, with his middling 18" threat. If he manages to make range add on another potential 9.5 damage. Grand total: 75.5 damage on average, 85 on average if destroyer is in range. |
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Post by greenbay924 on Feb 1, 2019 18:06:01 GMT
And considering the "minimum" threat range on the attempt is 20", shouldn't be too hard to pull off. You can be aggressive with the 12 doomreavers in the list to hold back his army while positioning everything.
EDIT: Yes, he still outranges you with guns, but he has to make a choice in dealing with the immediate doomreaver threat, or deal with the greylords.
EDIT EDIT: Ok, so it's harder against Gearheart specifically, subtract 34 damage from the totals, since I completely spaced on him having Decel. I guess you'll have to settle for removing all the infantry and ignore the Vulcan. Against any non armor buffed colossal, my math still stands!
It's all about the list being versatile. With the potential for a 4 ARM swing, while also maintaining 10+ spray potential, the list has a lot of dynamic play potential.
ALSO - I'm quickly falling in love with Combat Caster. An Escort can put up Fell Cruse, run and during feat fire off a Frostbite. So much fun!
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Post by sand20go on Feb 1, 2019 19:00:30 GMT
Or, you just run the following list and shoot off his army, and maybe even his Vulcan in one turn, since CG has absolutely awful magic defense: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KeW7p7snj8h8hnf89nf89nhnh8M8IKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24] - Destroyer [14] - Kodiak [13] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Yeah - one of the tests over the next couple of months will be double ponies with all the fixings. Getting the extra 2 damage off Kiss (and maybe even +6 with Rags) feels like it suddenly goes from being a one trick assassination pony to a brutally effective attrition beast. |
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Feb 1, 2019 21:01:36 GMT
Well I am hunting the white whale again tonight. Z1 into Juris piloting Gearheart. Say a prayer for me. Yup....my meta ;-) Went "OK". Z1 did get up 3-0 on Scenario play but the doomies couldn't weather out all that shooting. When you can snipe and shoot from 16/18 inches......and quasi-dead eye meant def 15 doomies didn't really matter ;-) and at that risk of confirmation bias there were at LEAST two times I REALLY missed the sprays on the greylords. REALLY missed. Actually....what ARE people playing into that hot mess of OP? AC would be, Juris and I believe, only just OK under Vlad2 because of the 4 point swing (Dragon Breath and Feat) that Gearheart can play. I found some success with Strakhov2 AC into CG as he stacks Armour, Def and Speed boosts that even CG cannot debuff all of it. I think the list that did the best was double shock troopers. Assault Shock troopers can do a lot of damage to a vulcan |
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Post by michael on Feb 1, 2019 21:41:19 GMT
And considering the "minimum" threat range on the attempt is 20", shouldn't be too hard to pull off. You can be aggressive with the 12 doomreavers in the list to hold back his army while positioning everything. EDIT: Yes, he still outranges you with guns, but he has to make a choice in dealing with the immediate doomreaver threat, or deal with the greylords. EDIT EDIT: Ok, so it's harder against Gearheart specifically, subtract 34 damage from the totals, since I completely spaced on him having Decel. I guess you'll have to settle for removing all the infantry and ignore the Vulcan. Against any non armor buffed colossal, my math still stands! It's all about the list being versatile. With the potential for a 4 ARM swing, while also maintaining 10+ spray potential, the list has a lot of dynamic play potential. ALSO - I'm quickly falling in love with Combat Caster. An Escort can put up Fell Cruse, run and during feat fire off a Frostbite. So much fun! Relying on a lot of assumptions there— namely that all the key debuffing solos live to see it happen. Terrain and enemy model placement can be a serious factor in practice. On an empty void of a table, sure... but in practice? I find it unlikely. |
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 1, 2019 21:43:03 GMT
Dude aren't you the one who hasn't actually done any testing?
Asking for people to explain their math then criticizing it when you've not done any testing isn't a great look
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Post by sand20go on Feb 1, 2019 21:48:12 GMT
Went "OK". Z1 did get up 3-0 on Scenario play but the doomies couldn't weather out all that shooting. When you can snipe and shoot from 16/18 inches......and quasi-dead eye meant def 15 doomies didn't really matter ;-) and at that risk of confirmation bias there were at LEAST two times I REALLY missed the sprays on the greylords. REALLY missed. Actually....what ARE people playing into that hot mess of OP? AC would be, Juris and I believe, only just OK under Vlad2 because of the 4 point swing (Dragon Breath and Feat) that Gearheart can play. I found some success with Strakhov2 AC into CG as he stacks Armour, Def and Speed boosts that even CG cannot debuff all of it. I think the list that did the best was double shock troopers. Assault Shock troopers can do a lot of damage to a vulcan Great observation. I need to try that and may be one of the post-KingdomCon switches I make to AC since Strakov2 is so good. Probably put in a Chariot, I think and then maybe a damage cranker like rags, Gorman, or Hutchuck.
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Post by michael on Feb 1, 2019 23:10:14 GMT
Dude aren't you the one who hasn't actually done any testing? Asking for people to explain their math then criticizing it when you've not done any testing isn't a great look You’re right — suggesting that, as a rule, *actual gameplay* is different from theory is crazy! Crazy! I’m going to get out of here again before the annoyance rises. |
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 1, 2019 23:30:15 GMT
Do, maybe take another vacation, you haven't added much since you came back except incessant whining about CID.
Demanding people explain their math then commenting about how thatl not happen in game WHEN YOU HAVEN'T FiretruckING TESTED tells me maybe you should Firetruck right off.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Feb 2, 2019 0:35:23 GMT
Went "OK". Z1 did get up 3-0 on Scenario play but the doomies couldn't weather out all that shooting. When you can snipe and shoot from 16/18 inches......and quasi-dead eye meant def 15 doomies didn't really matter ;-) and at that risk of confirmation bias there were at LEAST two times I REALLY missed the sprays on the greylords. REALLY missed. Actually....what ARE people playing into that hot mess of OP? AC would be, Juris and I believe, only just OK under Vlad2 because of the 4 point swing (Dragon Breath and Feat) that Gearheart can play. Old Witch 2 would probably help and I would actually expect Doom Reavers to do okayish because Tough and decent DEF is annoying (only 1 unit can have Deadeye) for them and you can apparate + run to engage 16" away, on top of AD. OW2 is what I told him; I agree with that. Engaging is a poor idea. As it turns out, you can spray down the line of engaging models (often with attack types that don't damage to the CGI), so you're just feeding Doom Reavers to the CG player. Also, did you know that unit of CGI can aim, use minifeat, and with Snipe shoot at models up to 16" away at RAT 8? They also have CRA. Doom Reavers seem like a bad plan. OW2, however, great plan into Gearhart, I think. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Feb 2, 2019 5:06:24 GMT
Not sure I'm totally following Juris. Do you mean you think Old Witch 2 is a good drop into CG, but running something other than Wolves of Winter?
Cheers,
Dave
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