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Post by jdeckert on Jan 29, 2019 20:39:38 GMT
Revisit in 6 months and see if I’m right. Remember to compare between the CID and the final rules each game you play. See if something is lacking. So you can say it sucks now even though you didn't even test the stuff in CID, and the rest of the community has to do detailed testing for another 6 months before we can conclude you're wrong? You're doing exactly the same thing you complain about everyone ride doing. You're taking an unbalanced week of CID as the baseline, arguing exclusively that your faction should have better than it got instead of wanting balance, and arguing your opinion despite doing precisely zero testing. Take your own advice. Go test it and see.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 20:41:06 GMT
I think the much more important topic is what variant you are running this saturday at the SR? Since I do not aspire to win I figure Zerkova1. I like the idea of doomies....lots and lots of doomies and an even BIGGER cloud wall. It is just too bad I only "currently" own 2 escorts.... And did I tell you how just uber excited Zerkova1 is to have Ruin ;-) Should be a good opportunity to stress test Old Witch_2 before LVO 4 ARM swing makes me giddy with excitement! That feels really really strong.
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Post by auraco on Jan 29, 2019 20:44:06 GMT
I think the much more important topic is what variant you are running this saturday at the SR? Since I do not aspire to win I figure Zerkova1. I like the idea of doomies....lots and lots of doomies and an even BIGGER cloud wall. It is just too bad I only "currently" own 2 escorts.... And did I tell you how just uber excited Zerkova1 is to have Ruin ;-) Should be a good opportunity to stress test Old Witch_2 before LVO 4 ARM swing makes me giddy with excitement! You mean 6 Arm swing right? Ayana & holt are still in the list right?
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 29, 2019 21:10:42 GMT
Should be a good opportunity to stress test Old Witch_2 before LVO 4 ARM swing makes me giddy with excitement! You mean 6 Arm swing right? Ayana & holt are still in the list right? I have concluded that 4 ARM is enough lol I'm already scared of having too many support models, or not enough Reavers if you look at it differently.
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Post by michael on Jan 29, 2019 21:19:32 GMT
Revisit in 6 months and see if I’m right. Remember to compare between the CID and the final rules each game you play. See if something is lacking. So you can say it sucks now even though you didn't even test the stuff in CID, and the rest of the community has to do detailed testing for another 6 months before we can conclude you're wrong? You're doing exactly the same thing you complain about everyone ride doing. You're taking an unbalanced week of CID as the baseline, arguing exclusively that your faction should have better than it got instead of wanting balance, and arguing your opinion despite doing precisely zero testing. Take your own advice. Go test it and see. I had zero interest in testing until the last week, because the first sets of changes were balls. The last week, I ended up working a lovely 70-something hours due to a work emergency and found myself unable to test. I also detested the beaten shelter dog mentality displayed by a lot of testers, who seemed more than eager to give away good stuff seemingly hoping to preempt PP taking things away. Hell, Circle asked for outrageous stuff in their CID and got their way because they presented such a ridiculously united front. Swapping Bonds of Woe and Brittle Frost was one of those half-baked ideas that two or three people cooked up with two days to go and ran with, and it is a bad idea. But, whatever. This will never get revisited. We’re stuck with it. I’m done with this thread.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jan 29, 2019 22:13:07 GMT
What is great about the switching of Brittle Frost and Bonds of Woe is now you have access to 6 and up to 8 RFP attacks
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 29, 2019 22:33:23 GMT
The post-CID changes *have* been for the worse I think, but it’s all still very strong and good changes. Two Koldun Lords, unit of Ternion and the Adjunct are such a great support package for very few “real” points.
Saying the Koldun Lord is not really good when he has Guidance, an ARM debuff and Lore Master AND MA 8 is frankly beyond my comprehension. I consider him an auto-include almost. Honestly I’m surprised we got to keep Brittle Frost at all. People take the Blackclad Wayfarer for a MA 7 Hunter’s Mark and people pay 4 points for Puppet Master models and are happy with them. Access to better cloud tech will also make the Lord somewhat easier to protect.
I for one am VERY excited to try all the new rules and see how thinks play out on the table.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jan 29, 2019 22:51:03 GMT
I still think Ternion should have kept the iconic Frostbite and the Escort take Bonds of Woe. Keep the Doom Reaver recursion in the Doom Reaver unit; I dislike it when they tie one unit directly to another like that. It limits flexibility.
I also note they've sneakily changed Bonds of Woe from 'Add' to 'Return to Play'. Possibly for the best, but still sad to see it go.
100% unsurprised that the the Koldun got Canker Frost, as I think someone said that was happening in a Dev Session before the CID ended. Still quite happy to pay 8 points to get 2 ARM debuffs.
Overall, Wolves is in an infinitely better place than it was, although I was hoping the Adjunct rules would come out at the same time.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 23:29:22 GMT
I still think Ternion should have kept the iconic Frostbite and the Escort take Bonds of Woe. Keep the Doom Reaver recursion in the Doom Reaver unit; I dislike it when they tie one unit directly to another like that. It limits flexibility. I also note they've sneakily changed Bonds of Woe from 'Add' to 'Return to Play'. Possibly for the best, but still sad to see it go. 100% unsurprised that the the Koldun got Canker Frost, as I think someone said that was happening in a Dev Session before the CID ended. Still quite happy to pay 8 points to get 2 ARM debuffs. Overall, Wolves is in an infinitely better place than it was, although I was hoping the Adjunct rules would come out at the same time. AND it pairs SO WELL with AC. You really can structure AC now to be exclusively focused on dealing with small model count armies and then use your Wolves to just CRUSH (I am confused about how Tharn survives a ton of different Wolves lists if you have a way of MODESTLY increasing Mat) infantry oriented lists. My only complaint is Bonds of Woe is LIVING models. So it won't work (bad PP, BAD) on things like immortals since they are not living (I really hate the construct rule). But my goodness it is going to be GLORIOUS into a ton of crap.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jan 29, 2019 23:29:58 GMT
The Adjunct rules will be out with his release within the next two weeks I think
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 30, 2019 0:46:30 GMT
Dammit! can't seem to fit that last point and it's driving me nuts! (Reinholdt will transform into an Adjunct at LVO btw ) https://conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KhzkTkTkT7i8h8hnf89nf89nfnfnfnnnnnn
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter
[Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jan 30, 2019 1:05:39 GMT
Dammit! can't seem to fit that last point and it's driving me nuts! (Reinholdt will transform into an Adjunct at LVO btw ) https://conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KhzkTkTkT7i8h8hnf89nf89nfnfnfnnnnnn
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter
[Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Rager Marauder Juggernaut or Kodiak depends on what you feel you need more
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jan 30, 2019 1:07:21 GMT
See, I'm going with:
War Room Army
Khador - Butcher 2 Wolves
Theme: Wolves of Winter 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir - WJ: +28 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
Fenris - PC: 8 - Fenris (Continued) Koldun Lord - PC: 0
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 0 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 0 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
THEME: Wolves of Winter ---
GENERATED : 01/29/2019 20:06:50 BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
Mmmmmmmmmmm
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Post by sand20go on Jan 30, 2019 1:44:38 GMT
Dammit! can't seem to fit that last point and it's driving me nuts! (Reinholdt will transform into an Adjunct at LVO btw ) https://conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KhzkTkTkT7i8h8hnf89nf89nfnfnfnnnnnn
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter
[Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
fun but it probably struggles into my double outriders Z2. WIth Brittle it is border line stupid. conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KeWkTnm8h8hnfnfnhnhnnnn8M8IKhador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Zerkova 2] Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24] - Marauder [11] - Ruin [17] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] For those counting at home that is a 22 inch threat with the Bad Santas and 25 with Lady Ayana to land the -4 Arm swing. Hoarfrost can be then cranked to POW 18 along with a serious amount of POW 16 Sprays and Bonds. The clouds on the 6 doomies is boss. And should you get list chickened you still with that 4 point swing have a great ability to crack armor. And, for even MORE fun you can abuse Winters Wind to freeze stuff. Feels pretty damm solid for the same reason that Stalingrad feels good. Dudes be GONE!!!
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Post by jdeckert on Jan 30, 2019 2:44:31 GMT
For those counting at home that is a 22 inch threat with the Bad Santas and 25 with Lady Ayana to land the -4 Arm swing. Hoarfrost can be then cranked to POW 18 along with a serious amount of POW 16 Sprays and Bonds. The clouds on the 6 doomies is boss. And should you get list chickened you still with that 4 point swing have a great ability to crack armor. And, for even MORE fun you can abuse Winters Wind to freeze stuff. Feels pretty damm solid for the same reason that Stalingrad feels good. Dudes be GONE!!! That's pretty close to what I played with her in CID. I didn't like it at all, but play style is probably part of that. With only 2 units of doom reavers and no way of speeding up the 'jacks, it can struggle vs. armor despite the crazy swing. Not that it's a bad list at all - but I'd still be worried about dropping it into any kind of ARM skew. If I were going to run it again, I think I'd actually go with 2x destroyer for the battlegroup. That way the lack of 'jack speed isn't a big deal. I found that with a lot of my Wolves of Winter lists that by the time the melee 'jacks got to the fight it was already over one way or the other.
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