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Post by michael on Jan 29, 2019 19:47:33 GMT
Wow... that is shit. Not The Shit, but regular old shit. Like poop. Supremely disappointing. Please elaborate! I did. It got lost at the end of the previous page. I lament the loss of flexibility in Khador yet again.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 29, 2019 19:52:48 GMT
I did. It got lost at the end of the previous page. I lament the loss of flexibility in Khador yet again. I don't see it that way. The 5 inch bubble is way more flexible I think, especially with Lore Master on the KL and Sprays on the Outriders. It can reach further out into the back field, not just what the Reavers can swing at.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 19:54:28 GMT
Seriously. Brittle Frost moving from the Ternion to the Koldun Lord, where it directly competes against Puppet Master and Lore Master, sucks. It really just about breaks my interest in the theme. Fell Curse moving to a 5” bubble from just straight up Grievous Wounds on the unit also sucks. The Escort could get plugged before or stay at max CMD and the Reavers would extend GW way out. Like, seriously. This sucks. I see it as being tactically interesting. My guess is that 9 "free" Cancer/Brittle Frosts was a bit much to have being tossed around....and you can still get out 4 with Zerkova 2.
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Post by jdeckert on Jan 29, 2019 19:56:58 GMT
Wow... that is shit. Not The Shit, but regular old shit. Like poop. Supremely disappointing. I don't say this often, because a lot of things are subjective and I try to retain some intellectual humility, but you're wrong. Doom reavers at 10 points is awesome. If it was the only thing to come out of CID I'd be happy. 11 points wouldn't have been terrible. The UA is now good. Not auto-include, but good. He got cheaper, relentless charge is huge, sac pawn definitely helps, and his aura is solid. He's fixed. The ternion changes are interesting. Blizzard on reavers is ok. We haven't had recursion tech before, so that's cool but a bit restricted. I think they should have come down in points, but they're basically free anyway. If they had lost that with these rules, it would be disappointing. But they went from "never ever take" to a good option. Fenris is ok. I still wish he was more survivable, but he picked up a LOT and got cheaper. Not disappointed with where he is. The koldun lord - holy cow. Puppet master and loremaster alone might have been enough. The ARM debuff is gravy. It's really nice. Everything looks competitively viable. Doom reavers are incredible. They expanded the CID when we pushed for the other really bad models and then they fixed them. This is a great day for Khador.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jan 29, 2019 20:00:18 GMT
I have already adjusted mad dogs to have all six units of doomies again! I was going to have five uas, but I think I will take four and then a koldun lord. Puppet master on Butcher 2 or Ruin is awesome!
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 20:06:41 GMT
I have already adjusted mad dogs to have all six units of doomies again! I was going to have five uas, but I think I will take four and then a koldun lord. Puppet master on Butcher 2 or Ruin is awesome! +1. I think the question with Mad Dogs is how you can viably do some STUPID things to mirror Mark2 (which honestly are going to put you deep in the tank figuring out) because you can use the feat to boost the charge of a Ternion to proc battlewizard which, in turn, can be used to both generate a new token AND bring back a Doomie....which in Turn can WALK 6 inchs and then use the Rage tokens to start buying swings.
and then there is this really interest rule thing that I need to go study to see if they fixed Mk2 to MK 3. In Mk2UNITS are the thing that activates and NOT models....which would potentially allowing you to generate tokens and RETURN to the original model you put forward.
But I am most interested in Zerkova2 with Ruin.....;-)
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 29, 2019 20:08:38 GMT
You can actually run a "Full Unit" of Doom Reavers now with only 1 Escort.
Which is basically Doom Reavers + Escort, and a second Doom Reavers without Escort.
Escort bubble can help the second unit also, and the second unit can still be used as Sac Pawns.
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Post by cplmustard on Jan 29, 2019 20:09:45 GMT
I think everyone's missing the "real" secret tech from this update, we can now get behemoth up to P+S 23 weaponmaster blessed with a free charge and full focus in a 75 pt list conflictchamber.com/?c3201b6ZkTnm7khF7whF8h8hlOkZ9u8M8IKhador Army - 75 / 75 points !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Butcher 1] Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov [+28] - Marauder [11] - Ruin [17] Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4] Greylord Forge Seer [4] - Behemoth [25] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Rager [10] Ragman [4] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]
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Post by michael on Jan 29, 2019 20:11:48 GMT
Just watch. Watch and see how “tactically interesting” it is to practically have zero access to Brittle Frost during a game, because removing a 13/13 5 box model is not difficult, or because even MA 8 misses and you get exactly TWO CHANCES MAX in your list to attempt it, or because you want both Puppet Master and Brittle Frost but guess what, FA 2 Koldun Lord.
This is a lousy change from the CID rules.
Revisit in 6 months and see if I’m right. Remember to compare between the CID and the final rules each game you play. See if something is lacking.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jan 29, 2019 20:14:30 GMT
I was considering adding ternions, but Butcher 2 does not care about returning doom readers! But zerkova 2 will love it!
I'm with you on ruin
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 20:22:43 GMT
Just watch. Watch and see how “tactically interesting” it is to practically have zero access to Brittle Frost during a game, because removing a 13/13 5 box model is not difficult, or because even MA 8 misses and you get exactly TWO CHANCES MAX in your list to attempt it, or because you want both Puppet Master and Brittle Frost but guess what, FA 2 Koldun Lord. This is a lousy change from the CID rules. Revisit in 6 months and see if I’m right. Remember to compare between the CID and the final rules each game you play. See if something is lacking. I don't disagree but I can see why handing out a ridiculous number of debuffs was a problem. You have to have shooting protection of some sort with Wolves. Having them spend shots at the KL feels like....well...."Winning".
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Post by auraco on Jan 29, 2019 20:25:22 GMT
micheal, not even goint to give it a chance on the table before complaining? Complaining against the new koldun lord because it has too many option and because it might miss with his debuff on a MA 8 attack just makes me laugh. The koldun lord wasn't even in the CID at the start of the cornucopia and he got a rework that made him way better than before, of all the things we got in the CID he's pretty much on top.
I'm excited by the changes, I dislike fell curse because it means having the escort way too close to the frontline for my taste, but other than that I'm happy with what we got, a typical wolves list just went around 15 to 20 points up compared to what it was before, that's before considering the buffs to the models themselves.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 29, 2019 20:29:42 GMT
Just watch. Watch and see how “tactically interesting” it is to practically have zero access to Brittle Frost during a game, because removing a 13/13 5 box model is not difficult, or because even MA 8 misses and you get exactly TWO CHANCES MAX in your list to attempt it, or because you want both Puppet Master and Brittle Frost but guess what, FA 2 Koldun Lord. This is a lousy change from the CID rules. Revisit in 6 months and see if I’m right. Remember to compare between the CID and the final rules each game you play. See if something is lacking. You're argument is that having more than 2 chances to land Brittle Frosts is better? Well, no shit it is. And that doing so with a chance to reroll is better on top? well, again, of course it is! Although you are strictly right in pointing out that X > Y, it's not really an argument against the utility of the new toys that Wolves get to play with.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 20:34:18 GMT
Just watch. Watch and see how “tactically interesting” it is to practically have zero access to Brittle Frost during a game, because removing a 13/13 5 box model is not difficult, or because even MA 8 misses and you get exactly TWO CHANCES MAX in your list to attempt it, or because you want both Puppet Master and Brittle Frost but guess what, FA 2 Koldun Lord. This is a lousy change from the CID rules. Revisit in 6 months and see if I’m right. Remember to compare between the CID and the final rules each game you play. See if something is lacking. You're argument is that having more than 2 chances to land Brittle Frosts is better? Well, no shit it is. And that doing so with a chance to reroll is better on top? well, again, of course it is! Although you are strictly right in pointing out that X > Y, it's not really a strong argument when highlighting that the new tools Wolves get to play with are useless. I think the much more important topic is what variant you are running this saturday at the SR? Since I do not aspire to win I figure Zerkova1. I like the idea of doomies....lots and lots of doomies and an even BIGGER cloud wall. It is just too bad I only "currently" own 2 escorts.... And did I tell you how just uber excited Zerkova1 is to have Ruin ;-)
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 29, 2019 20:36:41 GMT
You're argument is that having more than 2 chances to land Brittle Frosts is better? Well, no shit it is. And that doing so with a chance to reroll is better on top? well, again, of course it is! Although you are strictly right in pointing out that X > Y, it's not really a strong argument when highlighting that the new tools Wolves get to play with are useless. I think the much more important topic is what variant you are running this saturday at the SR? Since I do not aspire to win I figure Zerkova1. I like the idea of doomies....lots and lots of doomies and an even BIGGER cloud wall. It is just too bad I only "currently" own 2 escorts.... And did I tell you how just uber excited Zerkova1 is to have Ruin ;-) Should be a good opportunity to stress test Old Witch_2 before LVO 4 ARM swing makes me giddy with excitement!
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