mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on Jan 27, 2019 17:40:42 GMT
I am building up wolfs of winter and want to start getting a feel for them.
On paper, what are their good and bad matchups? Trolls seem bad due to both high defense and cold immunity on Northkin. What else??! Grymkin seems a tossup, the magical damage is amazing but you are feeding skin and moans like a candy store.
Figure I want to get them ready to play against the good matchups, but I can’t even decide what they will be.
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Post by michael on Jan 27, 2019 18:11:44 GMT
Just that one wolf, huh? You’re going to be outnumbered.  (I have nothing meaningful to contribute. I apologize in advance.) |
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on Jan 27, 2019 18:33:21 GMT
Just that one wolf, huh? You’re going to be outnumbered. (I have nothing meaningful to contribute. I apologize in advance.) Hah. Honesty is good komrade. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jan 27, 2019 23:23:52 GMT
I think bad matchups is somewhat caster dependent (yours, theirs), but in general opponents who bring serious single wound ranged infantry hate are a difficult matchup. I think you can mitigate this by your own caster selection, and (if the changes stick), a unit of Ternion for some cloud tech. If your own tech and their caster limit your opponent to one OK (not awesome) round of shooting, I think you are still in the game. If you let your opponent get one really good round of shooting in, then you’re at best 40/60 against and maybe worse (if you only brought 5 units of doomreavers, then definitely worse).
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785 
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Post by wendan on Jan 28, 2019 1:42:42 GMT
My go to for wolves is Butcher 2, so anything with a high model count I am all about.
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 28, 2019 15:17:49 GMT
I have over 40 games with WoW in, about 30 with Vlad2, the rest with Zerkova2. Very generally speaking, WoW Is good into melee centric lists.
Vlad2 is good into melee centric lists or balanced lists that don’t have overwhelming shooting (one dedicated shooting unit or MAYBE two depending on what unit exactly). He outthreatens most lists, hits more accurately than most lists, and also hits really hard when he really needs to. Put in a unit of Outriders and a Collosal, and your opponent with a melee centric or balanced list will really need to think hard how to fight you. In my opinion, if the CID comes through as it has been in the last update, Vlad2 WoW will be a great “sweeper” list that you can drop into 70-80% of the field, if not more.
Zerkova2 will feel the benefits of the CID much more if it comes as it was in the last update, due to her usually having issues cracking single hard targets. While she is usually overkill into melee centric armies, her lack of ability to deal with several hard targets makes her more specialized and therefore harder to use in the pairing process. On the other hand she can be built to have a stronger assasination game then Vlad2, therefore something giving you an “out” when Vlad2 couldn’t, especially against opponents who don’t know what she can do.
In addition to the two above, I also plan on trying Sorscha1 and OldWitch2 with WoW after the update, but I still feel like Vlad2 is going to be difficult to resist.
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 28, 2019 15:22:56 GMT
As for the Grymkin matchup, unless the opponent has two units of Hollowman, I feel Khador is favored, as your Reavers threaten more than anything they have in melee (before their last CID). I’ve never lost a game against Grymkin with WoW (all Vlad2). In fact, I built my Vlad2 list to specifically deal with Grymkin and was surprised when it was able to deal with so much more.
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 28, 2019 15:28:18 GMT
I haven’t played into Northkin yet (most my local players used Kolgrimma and didn’t want to drop her into Vlad2), but I feel Vlad2 WoW is a 50% or more matchup into PoD or BoH. High DEF doesn’t help much against Vlad2 with MAT 7 Reavers, or Hand of Fate sprays.
Kriel Company might actually be the worst match-up as it could potentially shoot the Reavers off the table fairly quickly.
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on Jan 29, 2019 14:31:29 GMT
I have over 40 games with WoW in, about 30 with Vlad2, the rest with Zerkova2. Very generally speaking, WoW Is good into melee centric lists. Vlad2 is good into melee centric lists or balanced lists that don’t have overwhelming shooting (one dedicated shooting unit or MAYBE two depending on what unit exactly). He outthreatens most lists, hits more accurately than most lists, and also hits really hard when he really needs to. Put in a unit of Outriders and a Collosal, and your opponent with a melee centric or balanced list will really need to think hard how to fight you. In my opinion, if the CID comes through as it has been in the last update, Vlad2 WoW will be a great “sweeper” list that you can drop into 70-80% of the field, if not more. Zerkova2 will feel the benefits of the CID much more if it comes as it was in the last update, due to her usually having issues cracking single hard targets. While she is usually overkill into melee centric armies, her lack of ability to deal with several hard targets makes her more specialized and therefore harder to use in the pairing process. On the other hand she can be built to have a stronger assasination game then Vlad2, therefore something giving you an “out” when Vlad2 couldn’t, especially against opponents who don’t know what she can do. In addition to the two above, I also plan on trying Sorscha1 and OldWitch2 with WoW after the update, but I still feel like Vlad2 is going to be difficult to resist. Vlad2 feat works on reavers? I have played a ton of vlad2 with AC. Hadn’t even considered him for WoW. Who are my main feat outs and who gets HoF? |
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 14:43:32 GMT
I have over 40 games with WoW in, about 30 with Vlad2, the rest with Zerkova2. Very generally speaking, WoW Is good into melee centric lists. Vlad2 is good into melee centric lists or balanced lists that don’t have overwhelming shooting (one dedicated shooting unit or MAYBE two depending on what unit exactly). He outthreatens most lists, hits more accurately than most lists, and also hits really hard when he really needs to. Put in a unit of Outriders and a Collosal, and your opponent with a melee centric or balanced list will really need to think hard how to fight you. In my opinion, if the CID comes through as it has been in the last update, Vlad2 WoW will be a great “sweeper” list that you can drop into 70-80% of the field, if not more. Zerkova2 will feel the benefits of the CID much more if it comes as it was in the last update, due to her usually having issues cracking single hard targets. While she is usually overkill into melee centric armies, her lack of ability to deal with several hard targets makes her more specialized and therefore harder to use in the pairing process. On the other hand she can be built to have a stronger assasination game then Vlad2, therefore something giving you an “out” when Vlad2 couldn’t, especially against opponents who don’t know what she can do. In addition to the two above, I also plan on trying Sorscha1 and OldWitch2 with WoW after the update, but I still feel like Vlad2 is going to be difficult to resist. Great write up. Have you found that Vlad2 can chew through Huge Base box/Arm spam (thinking here about Zaal2 SG under feat (ARM24) or the Vulcan under Locke (POSSIBLY ARM 22). I should do the math but in my meta you gotta usually have one of those. And I also wonder about Wolves into Cruciable Guard in General (or Makeda 3 which is also getting a lot of play). But that is why we got AC, right? ;-) |
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 29, 2019 14:43:41 GMT
The main feat targets are the Reavers, as with Apparition and feat a unit can threaten 16” on a charge, or 13” by just walking (and then boosting damage to simulate a charge...). I have feated on Forge Seers occasionally to good effect as well, and in my main current pre-CID build I also used Nyss Hunters as potential secondary targets.
I used Hand of Fate most of the time on Nyss Hunters (Hunter and higher natural RAT let’s them win most shooting duels, especially if terrain. Can be abused with Valachev. Also, P+S 9 Weapon Masters with HoF are a good secondary feat option), but post-CID I think a unit of Outriders will be the better target for the cost. I also played mostly with a Conquest, which started with Assail on it, but have had quite a few games where I switched HoF on it to get good value out of its secondary batteries, or increase its accuracy in a pinch.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 14:46:10 GMT
The main feat targets are the Reavers, as with Apparition and feat a unit can threaten 16” on a charge, or 13” by just walking (and then boosting damage to simulate a charge...). I have feated on Forge Seers occasionally to good effect as well, and in my main current pre-CID build I also used Nyss Hunters as potential secondary targets. I used Hand of Fate most of the time on Nyss Hunters (Hunter and higher natural RAT let’s them win most shooting duels, especially if terrain. Can be abused with Valachev. Also, P+S 9 Weapon Masters with HoF are a good secondary feat option), but post-CID I think a unit of Outriders will be the better target for the cost. I also played mostly with a Conquest, which started with Assail on it, but have had quite a few games where I switched HoF on it to get good value out of its secondary batteries, or increase its accuracy in a pinch. I LOVED putting HoF on Conquest and throwing stuff all over the place before I put Victor into my Vlad2 list. |
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 29, 2019 14:53:41 GMT
Great write up. Have you found that Vlad2 can chew through Huge Base box/Arm spam (thinking here about Zaal2 SG under feat (ARM24) or the Vulcan under Locke (POSSIBLY ARM 22). I should do the math but in my meta you gotta usually have one of those. And I also wonder about Wolves into Cruciable Guard in General (or Makeda 3 which is also getting a lot of play). But that is why we got AC, right? ;-) Talking about pre--CID lists, I’ve found that Vlad2 WoW can deal with a certain amount of ARM / box spam on attrition, but after a certain skew point it becomes difficult, and the strategy shifts to using speed and mobility to create conditions to enable a turn 4-5 scenario victory. I wouldn’t consider it optimal, but one could switch the Conquest that I was playing for three Marauders and see if that solves the problem, but I personally felt that the ranged presence the Conquest brings is very important. Last but not least, if the CID point costs and the ARM debuff stick, Vlad2 WoW will have even more game into high ARM lists (maybe not against things with Arcane Vortex, but about everything else). |
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Post by auraco on Jan 29, 2019 15:38:27 GMT
Great write up. Have you found that Vlad2 can chew through Huge Base box/Arm spam (thinking here about Zaal2 SG under feat (ARM24) or the Vulcan under Locke (POSSIBLY ARM 22). I should do the math but in my meta you gotta usually have one of those. And I also wonder about Wolves into Cruciable Guard in General (or Makeda 3 which is also getting a lot of play). But that is why we got AC, right? ;-) Talking about pre--CID lists, I’ve found that Vlad2 WoW can deal with a certain amount of ARM / box spam on attrition, but after a certain skew point it becomes difficult, and the strategy shifts to using speed and mobility to create conditions to enable a turn 4-5 scenario victory. I wouldn’t consider it optimal, but one could switch the Conquest that I was playing for three Marauders and see if that solves the problem, but I personally felt that the ranged presence the Conquest brings is very important. Last but not least, if the CID point costs and the ARM debuff stick, Vlad2 WoW will have even more game into high ARM lists (maybe not against things with Arcane Vortex, but about everything else). The nice thing about the ternion and canker frost, if it stays as it was in the CID, is that you can end up casting it a good number of times, so it would be possible to overload arcane vortex with a couple of ternions, that's not something you can do with single application of a debuff like Ayanna. But Canker frost seems like one of these things that might change between the las week of CID and now. |
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jan 29, 2019 18:23:25 GMT
The CID is up. Daddy is happy.
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