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Post by phantomsig on Jan 22, 2019 0:14:37 GMT
Hi everybody! Big con coming up, below are my lists for a masters and a steamroller. Though i'm open to feedback to the lists, i am too close to make any changes (as i believe a medium quality lists well practiced is worth more than an awesome list never played). What i am interested is difficult choices in opposing list pairs. Wurmwood is there for ranged lists, but in general Iona will be my go to. * Are there combinations of lists out there that would pose a problem to both my lists? * What in the Skorne and Ret should i be scared of? I haven't had a chance to research them * I haven't had any primal terrors reps in!! I think both lists would be ok, but would lean towards wurmwood (LOTF might do well to remove tentacles, perhaps B&C and the blood packs too). Thoughts? conflictchamber.com/?c8201b_-0j5veeeemKfrmVmI545i5ijXmS5fmMmM4_4____-0jmP4ImJfrfrfF54545i5imUmU4_mQmj5wmj5wCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host [Wurmwood 1] Wurmwood, Tree of Fate [+27] - Argus Moonhound [6] - Argus Moonhound [6] - Ghetorix [19] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Gallows Grove [2] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [4] Tharn Ravager White Mane [0(5)] Tharn Ravager White Mane [0(5)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Bríghid & Caul [7] Shifting Stones [3] Tharn Blood Pack (max) [15] Tharn Blood Pack (max) [15] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host [Iona 1] Iona the Unseen [+28] - Gnarlhorn Satyr [12] - Warpwolf Stalker [17] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Tharn Ravager Shaman [4] Tharn Ravager Shaman [4] Tharn Ravager White Mane [0(5)] Tharn Ravager White Mane [5] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] |
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Post by Trollock on Jan 22, 2019 8:57:50 GMT
Off topic perhaps, but i think you have way too much support in both lists. As for the primal terrors match up, i really like the blood pack there, especially with a damage buff. Sending in LotF to kill tentavles though sounds like a bae plan, cause it will most likely expose him and get him killed. You want him threshing on 4 chosen with curse of shadows to apply grievous wounds and possibly kill them all  |
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Post by streetpizza on Jan 23, 2019 14:57:48 GMT
I think you're banking on there being a lot of forests on tables pretty hard. Wurmwood does have game into gun lines but if there isn't good LOS block terrain then he's quite limited in that capacity on every turn except one. Also not every gun line cares about forests. Siege1, Caine3, Kaelyssa or Severius2 will ruin Wurmwood's day. I'm sure there are others but those are the standouts.
You have a distinct lack of anti cloudwall tech in your lists. High reclaimer, Goreshade4, Haley3, Kolgrimma, Zaadesh, King of Nothing, and Zerkova1 will all present problems for you. Wurmwood can maybe get his spells through but that's your only real saving grace. Consider trying to work in Lynus and Edrea or a mist speaker into one of your lists.
The last problem I see is that you've decided to go double DH. This means that both of your lists bring similar weaknesses. How do you plan on dealing with an opponent that plays trolls Band of Heroes, Retribution Shadows or a Skorne Masters of War players? Anybody that can turn off stealth or tough starts to chew through your armies pretty quick (note your heavy reliance on shamans for tough no knockdown trickery).
Like you said you're not into changing lists so you're in it either way for this con but in the future working a different theme like Bones, SM or CotW into your list can at least make your opponent think twice about which list to drop.
Where you're strong:
- good against infantry spam
- good into armor with Iona
- Reasonably potent assassination threat with Wurmwood should keep opposing casters honest and threaten the squishier ones. (Lynus and Edrea would help even more here as would a wild argus)
- Good answers for stealth
Good luck at the event and let us know how it goes.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jan 23, 2019 18:46:01 GMT
I think you're banking on there being a lot of forests on tables pretty hard. Wurmwood does have game into gun lines but if there isn't good LOS block terrain then he's quite limited in that capacity on every turn except one. Also not every gun line cares about forests. Siege1, Caine3, Kaelyssa or Severius2 will ruin Wurmwood's day. I'm sure there are others but those are the standouts. You have a distinct lack of anti cloudwall tech in your lists. High reclaimer, Goreshade4, Haley3, Kolgrimma, Zaadesh, King of Nothing, and Zerkova1 will all present problems for you. Wurmwood can maybe get his spells through but that's your only real saving grace. Consider trying to work in Lynus and Edrea or a mist speaker into one of your lists. The last problem I see is that you've decided to go double DH. This means that both of your lists bring similar weaknesses. How do you plan on dealing with an opponent that plays trolls Band of Heroes, Retribution Shadows or a Skorne Masters of War players? Anybody that can turn off stealth or tough starts to chew through your armies pretty quick (note your heavy reliance on shamans for tough no knockdown trickery). Like you said you're not into changing lists so you're in it either way for this con but in the future working a different theme like Bones, SM or CotW into your list can at least make your opponent think twice about which list to drop. Where you're strong: - good against infantry spam - good into armor with Iona - Reasonably potent assassination threat with Wurmwood should keep opposing casters honest and threaten the squishier ones. (Lynus and Edrea would help even more here as would a wild argus) - Good answers for stealth Good luck at the event and let us know how it goes. None of those themes are particularly bad matchups for (non-Morv1) DH. They are infantry-based themes, with their only real anti-DH tech being anti-tough (and Tharn should not rely on tough. There are never enough Tharn to make tough a reliable game plan.) There are some builds in those themes which are problematic (G4 in Shadows is an issue, but it's strictly because of his feat + cloudwall, and he's still very playable with wurmwood) As for gunlines...the only one that you listed that is concerning is Sevvy2, because he ignores forests en masse, and can bring a judicator (which puts WW on notice). Mage Sight covers too small an area to be super concerning (it's something you have to play around, not something you can't play into), and WW should be Arm 23 most turns, so typically I am QUITE happy if the opponent is dropping attacks into him instead of my other stuff. Also, if you're routinely playing on tables without LOS-blocking terrain in the centre, you probably want to talk to your TO, as SR2018 specifies at least 1 piece of LOS-blocking terrain touching the centre of the table. |
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Post by phantomsig on Jan 24, 2019 1:11:25 GMT
Off topic perhaps, but i think you have way too much support in both lists. As for the primal terrors match up, i really like the blood pack there, especially with a damage buff. Sending in LotF to kill tentavles though sounds like a bae plan, cause it will most likely expose him and get him killed. You want him threshing on 4 chosen with curse of shadows to apply grievous wounds and possibly kill them all Acknowledged on the support, but a lot of the support (white mane, bloodweaver nw, wolf champion) can do a lot of work on their own. So i'm not just holding back the whitemanes for the +1, they're in the thick of it, or prepped for countercharges. The shamans and the chieftains are the ones im moderately conservative with. Thanks for reminding me about LOTF and chosen. That's probably the best use of him yes! True! I do put a lot of weight in WW, and honestly naively didn't put much stock in cloud walls. The WW list is tight as it only has 1 point over the qualifying amount (the list is delivering B&C, LOTF, and supporting two bloodback units), and the mist speaker would be useless in Iona as only one solo would benefit from eyeless sight. Most of my WW practice games have been with minimal forests as a worst case scenario, as long as there is a LOS blocking piece (and knowing the TO, there should be), we should be ok. Double DH was indeed an interesting choice for me, I hope it works out . People will have an answer to tharn, but hopefully that means i can pick up on it in their list pair and know what i am facing. My two tharn lists are different enough, and the casters powerful enough (WW also being versatile). |
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Post by phantomsig on Jan 24, 2019 5:13:07 GMT
That being said, I will be very conscious of cloud wall tech now, so great answer.
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Post by phantomsig on Jan 27, 2019 10:44:41 GMT
Results! Game 1: kolgrima vs Iona Had a laugh at this first round match up . Clouds were indeed used to block line of site but I was so far spread out that it wasn’t an issue. Wolf rider champions forced bears to ambush far far away, close to my ooppents table edge, another unit of bears had poor charge lanes. Was probably the best game of wmh I’ve ever played, I had a clock, attrition and scenario lead, but I left Iona where she shouldn’t have been and kolgirmma went in for the kill  Game 2: ossrum vs Iona Felt very confident but in my haste to bait a feat, I forgot drillers had sustained attack and that their threat was non linear, so I got top of two,d..... Game 3: Helynna vis Iona Won against twin Hyperion. Sure foot and phantasm won it, and horrible rolls on the opponents turn. Wolf riders and night witches were all up in my opponents deployment zone Game 4: Tanith woldwrath and fulcrum vs Iona Odd list. Took out his fulcrum and grinded out a win from there All in all Iona is the business. My drop wurmwood for something new. Kolgrimma clouds were a nuisance but a nice wide unpack helped a lot. Thanks to you I was able to be conscious of that!!! |
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Post by phantomsig on Jan 27, 2019 10:45:00 GMT
Steamroller tomorrow, will use the same lists |
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Post by phantomsig on Jan 28, 2019 11:17:55 GMT
So updates!
Game 1: Goreshade 4 vs Wurmwood
My first experience with a trident. Very scary. Was a very tight game, ended on a loss on scenario. Having access to eyeless sight would have helped immensely, as field marshal arcane vortex is a hell of a drug. If i had read the card properly, i probably would have chosen iona
Game 2: Iona vs Lylyth1
Unfortunately for my opponent, phantasm is pretty crippling. He got one hail mary, needing a 16 on 3 dice to kill Iona. No luck! Win to me.
Game 3: Reznik2 double judy vs Iona
So not a terrible match up. But he did enough damage to me on his alpha that i just couldnt come back to it. He got a scenario victory with 2 minutes left on his clock (15 on mine...). Ambushing bloodweavers with UA (not even a feat) did a huge amount of damage to one judicator). I did not drop wurmwood as by this point in the weekend, i wasnt comfortable with the blood pack. They are efficient at hitting in this list, but really struggle with armour and lots of boxes.
Would like to keep on double dev host for now. Might toy with Baldur1 with the female tharn. But wurmwood is such a good caster..... Iona is hella powerful though, i hope she doesnt become the new Ossrum... but it sure feels like she has.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 28, 2019 12:08:44 GMT
I thonk Iona will be like Asphyxious 3 with 10 slayers or Anamag. It is a huge problem, but the meta will adapt.
I do not think she will be our ossrum because she is not very much better than our other casters. The problem for mercs is not that ossrum/magnus are too good, but that the rest of the casters are avsolute trash.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jan 30, 2019 1:18:26 GMT
I thonk Iona will be like Asphyxious 3 with 10 slayers or Anamag. It is a huge problem, but the meta will adapt. I do not think she will be our ossrum because she is not very much better than our other casters. The problem for mercs is not that ossrum/magnus are too good, but that the rest of the casters are avsolute trash. I agree. She's a big dumb stats caster, but with better side tech (dodge, phantasm) and worse numbers (pretty much just feat) than Anamag. Wurmwood will almost certainly be more long-lived in the meta, IMO. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 30, 2019 10:32:20 GMT
Also, if you're routinely playing on tables without LOS-blocking terrain in the centre, you probably want to talk to your TO, as SR2018 specifies at least 1 piece of LOS-blocking terrain touching the centre of the table. Incorrect: they require 2+ LoS blocking terrain features, but no mention of being specifically near the middle. The Cluster and Scatter methods specifically call out having a LoS blocking feature near the middle, while the Quadrant method does not. All 3 of the terrain setup methods are considered optional. |
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