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Post by borderprince on Jan 25, 2019 5:39:02 GMT
Thamarites want to live, keep their own souls, and gain power (and of the three, only gaining power is truly important). So why WOULDN'T they make a deal to help infernals if they stood to gain from it? Maybe they will, but from what we've seen so far, every human is a potential target for the Infernals. So working for them might increase the Infernals' power at the expense of the Thamarite's. It might also put the Thamarite's soul in jeopardy - and Thamarites do see that as important and a Bad Thing (explicitly discussed in the IKRPG material). Remember that people in the setting have very strong belief in the soul and Urcaen. Thamarites are also linked to necromancy, so might in fact know that a soul exists. Gaining temporary power at the expense of one's soul is a bad bargain to Thamarites. It's a short term gain for long term loss deal.
Perhaps work for the Infernals in exchange for a deal where one's own soul is not one of those collected?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 25, 2019 7:11:42 GMT
how many mercs and minions do Grymkin deploy? Exactly, one That's an interesting point. It seems to me that the fluff could go either way; I assume PP will decide how things should work on the game side and then write the fluff to match. So the question is whether, from a gameplay perspective, they "should" have access to any existing models or not. I don't think it's possible to say right now given how little we know. BTW it's possible that humans could work for Infernals because the Infernals ALREADY own their souls; "you're mine now you have no choice but to do what I tell you" sort of thing. While this wouldn't work very well for existing characters, it could be used to explain allowing existing non-character models or new character models to be part of the new faction. I mean, the Devil's Shadow seem to be in thrall to some unknown power don't they? I could see them running alongside Infernals for example.
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Post by Charistoph on Jan 25, 2019 7:17:12 GMT
We could be looking at a Dark Eldar situation where they are trying to hold off their culling by offering replacements. OR we could be looking at those wanting to gain their secrets from the inside. OR we could be looking at those who would hunt down the Infernalists to take from them their power. OR we could be looking at, "I'm not even going to give them a chance at my soul." All these scenarios would fit a Thamarite, but it depends on their own experiences and confidence in their own power and will be specific to them, not as a joint culture. Morrowans are about teaming up to fight evil, while Thamarites recognize the strength of self-reliance (in its most positive light). how many mercs and minions do Grymkin deploy? Exactly, one Well, two after the Kickstarter model gets released with Mecha-Medusa.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 25, 2019 12:32:21 GMT
Perhaps work for the Infernals in exchange for a deal where one's own soul is not one of those collected?
Could that be a thing? I remember them saying that Infernals are bound to the contracts/pacts they make with their human pawns because they don't have a direct influence in Caen. Now that they are physically in the world, I'm not sure that the word of an Infernal can be trusted anymore. And I assume that all smart Thamarites would follow this line of reasoning "What's the stop it from taking my soul anyway?"
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Post by michael on Jan 25, 2019 14:16:44 GMT
Just injecting some fluff bullet points here:
— Everybody in the Iron Kingdoms knows that gods and souls are real, tangible things. Denying souls/gods in Immoren is about as sensible as Flat Earthers in real life.
— Thamarites explicitly do NOT intentionally risk their own souls when dealing with Infernals. Some really desperate individuals might, but one of the core rules that Thamar/etc. laid down was essentially “don’t be that stupid, c’mon now.”
— The Infernals release video confirmed the long-supposed speculation that Thamar bargained with Infernals to grant the Gift of Magic to humanity. The exact terms of the bargain have not yet been revealed, but confirming the Thamar/Infernal connection as fact is interesting...
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jan 25, 2019 18:46:21 GMT
It seems PP is trying to tie in some thamarite stuff with Privateer identity (Fiona, Devil's shadow, and now this caster). Hopefully they'll be a whole unit of dreadlocks. As in, just animated hair. Dread Locks totes sounds like a Grymkin unit though.
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Post by Azuresun on Jan 27, 2019 17:07:21 GMT
So, about them pirates....
I really don't know what you could actually DO for pirates to make them relevant. DEF 13 single-wound infantry just melt off the table, while the proliferation of boosted sprays and the general need to be able to snipe OP buff characters mean that the solos pretty much won't ever make it to combat. Deck Guns had a purpose in Mk2 as Fiona's warcaster attachment, but this is an age where you need big damage to get rid of the ARM-stacking heavy infantry bricks that are halfway up the table on turn 1.
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Post by fallenexile on Jan 27, 2019 21:55:13 GMT
So, about them pirates.... I really don't know what you could actually DO for pirates to make them relevant. DEF 13 single-wound infantry just melt off the table, while the proliferation of boosted sprays and the general need to be able to snipe OP buff characters mean that the solos pretty much won't ever make it to combat. Deck Guns had a purpose in Mk2 as Fiona's warcaster attachment, but this is an age where you need big damage to get rid of the ARM-stacking heavy infantry bricks that are halfway up the table on turn 1. Bringing Sea Dogs to DEF 15 across the board with Sac Pawn [Sea Dog] as a theme benefit will definitely help survivability of the unit and the solos. Deck Guns and Sea Dogs also need +2 RAT. That will help the Gun actually hit things and also allow the Sea Dogs a turn of decent Pow 10 shooting before getting stuck in melee. Maybe even Assault (possibly from No Quarter via Walls?)
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 27, 2019 22:46:22 GMT
So, about them pirates.... I really don't know what you could actually DO for pirates to make them relevant. DEF 13 single-wound infantry just melt off the table, while the proliferation of boosted sprays and the general need to be able to snipe OP buff characters mean that the solos pretty much won't ever make it to combat. Deck Guns had a purpose in Mk2 as Fiona's warcaster attachment, but this is an age where you need big damage to get rid of the ARM-stacking heavy infantry bricks that are halfway up the table on turn 1. Bringing Sea Dogs to DEF 15 across the board with Sac Pawn [Sea Dog] as a theme benefit will definitely help survivability of the unit and the solos. Deck Guns and Sea Dogs also need +2 RAT. That will help the Gun actually hit things and also allow the Sea Dogs a turn of decent Pow 10 shooting before getting stuck in melee. Maybe even Assault (possibly from No Quarter via Walls?) I can't see them giving base def 15, they nipped def 15 units in the bud coming into mk3, it's now conditional on something like treewalker, blade shield or defensive line.
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Post by Azuresun on Jan 28, 2019 8:43:42 GMT
I can't see them giving base def 15, they nipped def 15 units in the bud coming into mk3, it's now conditional on something like treewalker, blade shield or defensive line. I'd have agreed with you not so long ago, but nowadays, that's probably the bare minimum. Thing is, originally, pirates were designed as THE buff-stacking subfaction, but these days, that describes half the stuff coming out of CID, often with the buffs attached to more resilient delivery systems.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 28, 2019 10:12:28 GMT
Maybe up the recursion factor? Possibly also just dropping the unit price, to turn them into a real swarm of pie-rats? The problem I guess is you either need good armour-cracking or good control these days, just jamming with a mass of low-power bodies probably isn't enough? Maybe if they come with some control solos or jacks that could work?
Well, I don't really know, I'm just throwing stuff at the wall.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 28, 2019 12:19:12 GMT
Maybe up the recursion factor? Possibly also just dropping the unit price, to turn them into a real swarm of pie-rats? The problem I guess is you either need good armour-cracking or good control these days, just jamming with a mass of low-power bodies probably isn't enough? Maybe if they come with some control solos or jacks that could work? Well, I don't really know, I'm just throwing stuff at the wall. I hope Killingsworth get reinforcements like Dr Nic. In terms of armour cracking, Talion struggles due to lack of Ragman, Gorman, Hutchuk. That's why I think Warjacks getting Gang Fighter would be great for the theme. In terms of the infantry themselves I think making them dirt cheap is the best option.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 28, 2019 12:38:08 GMT
In terms of armour cracking, Talion struggles due to lack of Ragman, Gorman, Hutchuk. That's why I think Warjacks getting Gang Fighter would be great for the theme. While not as good as Gang, one possibility might be a Freebooter chassis with Trash, but with an actual weapon (P+S 17 minimum)?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jan 28, 2019 15:26:49 GMT
Yes, spamming cheap single wound infantry is something totally unique and something we have never seen done in mercs. Maybe we should rename the theme into the "Metal noggin Theme" or something like that.
That being said I'm not exactly full of ideas either, so maybe I should not be talking smack. Other than "Make the solos worth a damn", "add a good ranged light jack", "Give the units a better statline", "change the theme benefits to something better", "add some damage buffs" e.g. make it so Hawk just gives warrior models flat out weapon master on melee weapons, and/or give one of the privateer casters a damage buff spell like mortality or something. Which are not exactly the most specific (nor all that good probably, especially the last one) suggestions.
Also, naturally we should demand something gains Carapace, just to keep the meme alive.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 28, 2019 17:13:34 GMT
sorokin yeah small based infantry spam is already very prevalent in mercs, but as all the Privateer models are currently small base, there is not really any scope to drastically change that. If we were going to get proper heavy infantry it would most likely come from Hammerfall. Besides that happening the only other option atm is Llealese Resistance. I am hopeful for this CID though, from what Hungerford has been saying they want Talion to be a serious contender, but whether they fully comprehend the buffs needed to do that remains to be seen
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