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Post by borderprince on Jan 18, 2019 5:41:32 GMT
Umm, wouldn't Thamarites be against the Infernals since the Infernals would be after THEIR souls as much as anyone else's? Thamar actively deals with Internals and encourages her followers to do the same. In fact, from the wiki: "Infernalists of western Immoren deal primarily with a single infernal society called the Nonokrion Order. Among this Order, mortals may only negotiate deals with 'true' infernals called Curators and their even more powerful masters, the Executors." (Bold for emphasis. Fiona's spell "Nonokrion Brand"?) It's more subtle that that. Thamar encourages people to gain power for themselves. Dealing with Infernals is one way to do that. However:
(i) The IKRPG material makes it clear that many Thamarites do not deal with Infernals because there is too much chance of the Infernals getting the better end of the deal, which would be contrary to Thamarite teaching. So while Infernalism is acceptable to Thamar, it is just that acceptable, rather than encouraged. A Thamarite like d'Acosta would probably also reject it on the basis that it is bringing in outside help, rather than gaining power through his own skill, it would be 'cheating' as he puts it in one of the books.
(ii) It looks like the Infernal faction is about the Infernals coming to collect a debt owed to themselves. So not working for anyone else (like the Nonokrion Order), but on their own behalf. That is contrary to the reason Thamarites deal with Infernals. I can see some Thamarites being caught up in the faction for having tried Infernalism and ended up on the hook to Infernals, but those are Thamarites who have not practiced Infernalism safely, from a Thamarite perspective. In other words, they were not good at it. It's possible someone like Fiona mightbe a partisan on the basis she agrees to assist the Infernals, but Thamar is probably opposed to the Infernals here (remember that her actions were to protect humanity, albeit in the shorter term), so I'm not convinced.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Jan 18, 2019 9:59:03 GMT
Practice safe infernalism - wear a condom.
I'd say that allying Fiona to an Infernalist faction questionable fluffwise, but its not the worst transgression I've seen.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 18, 2019 12:42:07 GMT
Perhaps they made a deal to help the Infernals gather souls, rather than trading away their own?
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Jan 18, 2019 13:26:03 GMT
Perhaps they made a deal to help the Infernals gather souls, rather than trading away their own? I could see this. Demon shows up, you’re like, “I’m a Thamarite, I’m all about me first. What’s that you’re gonna take my soul? Hmmm... what if I help you take other people’s souls instead, call it cool and I can continue increasing my own power?” In that scenario, I could see Fiona throwing a few underlings to the demons if it meant she was free to continue progressing in power. Same goes with Rag man really. But I also don’t know much of the fluff about these characters soooo... could be wrong.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Jan 18, 2019 13:49:38 GMT
Thamar has Scions, who are basically evil saints. They were humans who were devoted to Thamar and ascended to semi godhood like she did.
They each specialize in a vice, crime or type of naughty behavior. I know there's one for arson, necromancy, dealing with infernals and gambling. Probably more but thats just from memory.
Most Thamarite sects follow one of the scions and if you're not in a cult, you choose one as your patron saint/scion.
From her spell list Fiona likes the infernal stuff. According to the fluff Ragman is into necromancy.
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Post by gobber on Jan 18, 2019 14:09:03 GMT
Sc. Aidan Grave-Robbers, Treasure Seekers and Adventurers Sc. Bolis Gamblers, Smugglers & Evil Merchants Sc. Delesle Necromancy and Death Sc. Drayce Thieves & Corrupt Leaders Sc. Ekris Infernalists, Diviners and Tyrants Sc. Khorva Patron of Assassins, Murderers, Thugs and Enforcers Sc. Lukas Madmen, Rapists & the Depraved Sc. Nivara Wizards & Sorcerers Sc. Roth Soldiers, Mercenaries and Bandits Sc. Stacia Evokers, Arson, Champion of Female Wizardry
Nivara/Stacia would make the most sense for Fiona, but given the name of Roth's mercy, and the Nonokrion brand/order likely pertaining to Ekris, she seems to be following more than one. Ragman is known to follow Delesle. IIRC he's able to learn more about necromancy by talking to random corpses after battles, hence why he follows armies around on campaign.
Also, on the several-pages-ago river raider point, I'd love to see them buffed though their main testing needs would be over in minions where they're occasionally used with Helga (or as barny/jaga sacrifices)
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Post by michael on Jan 24, 2019 14:36:09 GMT
February 6.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jan 24, 2019 15:50:33 GMT
Perhaps they made a deal to help the Infernals gather souls, rather than trading away their own? I could see this. Demon shows up, you’re like, “I’m a Thamarite, I’m all about me first. What’s that you’re gonna take my soul? Hmmm... what if I help you take other people’s souls instead, call it cool and I can continue increasing my own power?” In that scenario, I could see Fiona throwing a few underlings to the demons if it meant she was free to continue progressing in power. Same goes with Rag man really. But I also don’t know much of the fluff about these characters soooo... could be wrong. Thing is, that's esentially what Infernals have been doing for the last 600 years. Getting Thamarites to collect souls for them. Now things have changed however, since NOW infernals show up in caen themselves, so it stands to reason they are fed up with others doing their work for them.
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Post by fallenexile on Jan 24, 2019 16:02:21 GMT
Thing is, that's esentially what Infernals have been doing for the last 600 years. Getting Thamarites to collect souls for them. Now things have changed however, since NOW infernals show up in caen themselves, so it stands to reason they are fed up with others doing their work for them.
Every mini faction to date has brought in existing models. I don't see why infernals showing up would change anything. Thamarites want to live, keep their own souls, and gain power (and of the three, only gaining power is truly important). So why WOULDN'T they make a deal to help infernals if they stood to gain from it?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 24, 2019 16:16:27 GMT
Thing is, that's esentially what Infernals have been doing for the last 600 years. Getting Thamarites to collect souls for them. Now things have changed however, since NOW infernals show up in caen themselves, so it stands to reason they are fed up with others doing their work for them.
It seems to me that by that logic no faction would ever run mercs or minions alongside their own troops? I dunno, it just seems like a bit if a leap of logic to me to say that because Infernals are here now that they will stop their usual ways; it's certainly possible that they would still benefit from hiring locals who have regional knowledge etc (even just for the manpower; I don't think we don't know what limits they might be under or what the extent of the invasion actually is yet). Just like most armies do when they invade another country.
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Post by gobber on Jan 24, 2019 21:36:15 GMT
Looks like another thamarite caster?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jan 24, 2019 22:00:27 GMT
Thing is, that's esentially what Infernals have been doing for the last 600 years. Getting Thamarites to collect souls for them. Now things have changed however, since NOW infernals show up in caen themselves, so it stands to reason they are fed up with others doing their work for them.
It seems to me that by that logic no faction would ever run mercs or minions alongside their own troops? I dunno, it just seems like a bit if a leap of logic to me to say that because Infernals are here now that they will stop their usual ways; it's certainly possible that they would still benefit from hiring locals who have regional knowledge etc (even just for the manpower; I don't think we don't know what limits they might be under or what the extent of the invasion actually is yet). Just like most armies do when they invade another country. They are literal alien creatures from another world, I just doubt they would associate with mere mortals now that their invasion is put into place.
But that's just conjecture on my part. Also, pray tell, how many mercs and minions do Grymkin deploy? Exactly, one, they guy who works for everybody anyway. So, given that both Grymkin and Infernals are both alien races from bejond the afterlife, bent on harvesting a huge amount of human souls, I can see them function similarly in this regard.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jan 24, 2019 22:02:27 GMT
Thing is, that's esentially what Infernals have been doing for the last 600 years. Getting Thamarites to collect souls for them. Now things have changed however, since NOW infernals show up in caen themselves, so it stands to reason they are fed up with others doing their work for them.
Every mini faction to date has brought in existing models. I don't see why infernals showing up would change anything. Thamarites want to live, keep their own souls, and gain power (and of the three, only gaining power is truly important). So why WOULDN'T they make a deal to help infernals if they stood to gain from it? I'm not saying thamarites would not trying to offer their services to them, I'm saying I can see the infernals turning them down.
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Post by Charistoph on Jan 25, 2019 0:08:56 GMT
Looks like another thamarite caster? That's one of the suppositions on Facebook, or possibly someone who has spent a lot of time in Zu. The question is if she is full or Junior. Either will be welcome, but if she's full, I hope she has more than 6 Focus.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 25, 2019 0:53:50 GMT
It seems PP is trying to tie in some thamarite stuff with Privateer identity (Fiona, Devil's shadow, and now this caster). Hopefully they'll be a whole unit of dreadlocks. As in, just animated hair.
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