Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932 
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Post by Ganso on Jan 15, 2019 19:11:47 GMT
Ok, I'm trying to think of how to build the most obscene B_3 list I can come up with now that Sorscha_0 is about to be released. So that means either WGK or Jaws.
I'm thinking that it has to accomplish 5 things:
-Scare Huge Bases
-Deal with recursion/med infantry spam
-Have a solid Scenario game
-Not fold to Control casters
-Always threat a close out due to Butcher's 17 (possibly 20) threat
Any thoughts? Is it possible?
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Post by jonnyboy on Jan 15, 2019 21:46:09 GMT
Yes! I have been playing around with this combo since the announcement of s0. I made this list the other night. Albiet no marauder i don't think huge bases will feel safe.
The spriggan was a swap for beast 09 to fit in kel. Not sure how i feel about it tho, both are nice models now.
The forge seer is a stand-in for the adjunct and malakov a stand-in for sorscha.
War Room Army
Khador - New Army
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
- War Argus
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Spriggan - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
- Devastator - PC: 14
- Kodiak - PC: 13
Kovnik Andrei Malakov - PC: 4
- Destroyer - PC: 14
Yuri the Axe - PC: 0
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Kell Bailoch - PC: 5
Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf
---
GENERATED : 01/15/2019 16:43:28
BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
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Post by sand20go on Jan 15, 2019 22:29:18 GMT
Ok, I'm trying to think of how to build the most obscene B_3 list I can come up with now that Sorscha_0 is about to be released. So that means either WGK or Jaws. I'm thinking that it has to accomplish 5 things: -Scare Huge Bases -Deal with recursion/med infantry spam -Have a solid Scenario game -Not fold to Control casters -Always threat a close out due to Butcher's 17 (possibly 20) threat Any thoughts? Is it possible? I think putting him in WGK is the way to go. BC on the Fun carriage is great. Putting Silence of death on it is all kinds of special. They can't easily move it around. I also like damage buff because I think it just makes it all the more scary. I know this is going to be among first tests. conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0fdIkTeQ8flOkW8t8M8I7S7T7W7-i6Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Winter Guard Kommand !!! This army contains a CID entry. [Butcher 3] Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed [+22] - Marauder [11] - Ruin [17] - War Dog [3] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Juggernaut [13] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10] - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [0(4)] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0(5)] Winter Guard Gun Carriage [17] (I want the doge in there so Butcher has better dice odds of being up front during that one turn he needs to go do a lot of work). I honestly think a lot of games you could simply bully straight up the board with the fun carriage, hide butcher right behind it and be PERFECTLY safe until, next turn, you go kill his army and caster. Brutal and Oh so khador. |
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Post by ozvelpoon on Jan 15, 2019 22:32:46 GMT
Here is my go to list for Butcher3
Butcher3
-Argusi
-War Dog
-Sprigan
-Ruin
Sorcha0 (free)
-Rager
Winter Guard Gun Carriage
Winter Guard Infantry (max)
+UA
+WA x3
Joe
Widowmaker Marksman
Kayazy Eliminators
Mortar
Basic game play is Sorcha runs up the table saying "please don't kill butcher" with fog of war and her Rager. Butcher leads from the front with a cloud of Winter Guard advancing up the table with him. Ranged pressure comes from rockets; carriage; and mortar with WG infantry being more of a skirmishing unit to soften things up for Butchers charge in with his jacks.
The Gun Carriage is a hard flanking model along with the eliminators (either together or on opposite flanks based on my needs), they are there to force your opponent to the middle of the table and deny zones on the flanks. Mortar tend to get himself to the closest circular zone ASAP then not move for the rest of the game. Marksman does the same to a flag. Joe; Sorcha; and dog are my late game flag scorers once they are needed.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 15, 2019 22:36:09 GMT
Here is my go to list for Butcher3 Butcher3 -Argusi -War Dog -Sprigan -Ruin Sorcha0 (free) -Rager Winter Guard Gun Carriage Winter Guard Infantry (max) +UA +WA x3 Joe Widowmaker Marksman Kayazy Eliminators Mortar Basic game play is Sorcha runs up the table saying "please don't kill butcher" with fog of war and her Rager. Butcher leads from the front with a cloud of Winter Guard advancing up the table with him. Ranged pressure comes from rockets; carriage; and mortar with WG infantry being more of a skirmishing unit to soften things up for Butchers charge in with his jacks. The Gun Carriage is a hard flanking model along with the eliminators (either together or on opposite flanks based on my needs), they are there to force your opponent to the middle of the table and deny zones on the flanks. Mortar tend to get himself to the closest circular zone ASAP then not move for the rest of the game. Marksman does the same to a flag. Joe; Sorcha; and dog are my late game flag scorers once they are needed. All great. I want A&H in there because I am seeing a bunch of Makeda 3 right now in my meta and as I found out last week, ARM 22 is a thing that even Butcher hates seeing ;-) |
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 15, 2019 22:54:29 GMT
This is what I’m considering at the moment. I’m not sure it is *the* answer to recursion and medium base spam, but I think it can work. I personally also want it to be playable into strong ranged armies.
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
- War Argus
- War Dog - PC: 3
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
- Marauder - PC: 11
Winter Guard Gun Carriage - PC: 17
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff- PC: 4
- Mad Dog - PC: 8
Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan - PC: 3
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
I could see dropping the carriage for a Juggernaut and one more unit of artillery.
I’ve also tried building in JotW, but was never really happy with any list. I do feel one of the biggest benefits of JotW is the ability to take good mercenary solos (I.e. Alexia2, Orin, Eilish).
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 16, 2019 0:16:44 GMT
Pretty cool lists. Though I must confess I'm not feeling the Gun Carriage for the Huge Base match ups.
I'm skeptical of WGK because B_3 almost needs Eilish or the new and improved Alexia_2 for some spell hate. Though maybe smaking a Dog with Ruin could be enough?
I'll post my first draft in a bit.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 16, 2019 1:18:54 GMT
Ok, this is a bit of what I'm thinking
https://conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0xdIkTkTeQnjhF7whFlOkTcecgch
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
!!! This army contains CID entries.
[Butcher 3] Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed [+22]
- Marauder [11]
- Marauder [11]
- Ruin [17]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Behemoth [25]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4]
- Marauder [11]
Kayazy Assassins (min) [9]
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
It doesn't look like much, but follow my reasoning and let me know if I have any obvious gaps:
Marauders will usually deter Huge Bases. A Blessed Behemoth that charges for Free with POW 14/16 AP will probably keep them honest. Plus Behemoth with Guidance is probably enough of a Spot removal.
I needed a good Silence of Death target so I went with Kayazy, but I'm open to other suggestions. They'll basically go up against normally Recurred units, like Trenchers, Tharn and Exemplar with Take Down.
I still want to make room for Eilish for that Upkeep hate though.[/quote][/quote]
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Post by jonnyboy on Jan 16, 2019 3:46:48 GMT
sand20go, maybe i misread, but as for your first post silence of death wont affect the gun carriage sadly. It's a str buff I like B3 in WGK, but with these new solos I think JAWs is getting a huge buff. Butcher is great at killing anything and he's a strong scenario bully. With jacks that now threaten 12-13" under B3/S0 I want to push that scenario bully even harder. WMM, WM, kell bailoch, destroyer, and a devastator can really hold a board side. While b3 and his two 13" threat jacks dig deep towards a caster or dominate a side of the board. And you have another jack, kayazy and a few solos playing triage.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 16, 2019 4:39:11 GMT
sand20go , maybe i misread, but as for your first post silence of death wont affect the gun carriage sadly. It's a str buff I like B3 in WGK, but with these new solos I think JAWs is getting a huge buff. Butcher is great at killing anything and he's a strong scenario bully. With jacks that now threaten 12-13" under B3/S0 I want to push that scenario bully even harder. WMM, WM, kell bailoch, destroyer, and a devastator can really hold a board side. While b3 and his two 13" threat jacks dig deep towards a caster or dominate a side of the board. And you have another jack, kayazy and a few solos playing triage. While Silence of death doesn't impact the Damage of the Fun Carriage it SURELY does give it take down which is golden when, for example, it goes and charges some random immortal that it can charge from 12 inches away, impact attacking all the way as it does so. We are seeing a LOT of double immortals lately (as well as super tough halbies under Cruciable Guard. Fun carriage, as they say, for the win. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jan 16, 2019 6:15:40 GMT
Ganso : You said in one post you feel you need Eilish or Alexia2, but the list you post doesn't have either that I can see? Used to run a really fun list in MKII with multiple huge bases, let me see if I can recreate it now. Cheers, Dave
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 16, 2019 17:30:35 GMT
Ganso : You said in one post you feel you need Eilish or Alexia2, but the list you post doesn't have either that I can see? Used to run a really fun list in MKII with multiple huge bases, let me see if I can recreate it now. Cheers, Dave Yea, I think I need to cut the Eliminators and add him in sadly. Butcher getting hit with Control upkeeps is just not fun. The new list should look like this: https://conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0xdIkTkTeQnjj6hF7whFlOkTcecg
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
!!! This army contains CID entries.
[Butcher 3] Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed [+22]
- Marauder [11]
- Marauder [11]
- Ruin [17]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Behemoth [25]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4]
- Marauder [11]
Kayazy Assassins (min) [9]
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4]
The list has exactly 75 points worth of Jacks for 3 free solos. Dropping to 50 points will give me around 21 points to work with since I'm going to have to pay for that 3rd solo that I don't want to cut  Should be enough for more Kayazy, but it means I'm cutting Marauders, and that's kinda hard to justify since the list is primarily a Huge base hunter. |
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Post by sand20go on Jan 16, 2019 20:24:27 GMT
Ganso : You said in one post you feel you need Eilish or Alexia2, but the list you post doesn't have either that I can see? Used to run a really fun list in MKII with multiple huge bases, let me see if I can recreate it now. Cheers, Dave Yea, I think I need to cut the Eliminators and add him in sadly. Butcher getting hit with Control upkeeps is just not fun. The new list should look like this: https://conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0xdIkTkTeQnjj6hF7whFlOkTcecg
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
!!! This army contains CID entries.
[Butcher 3] Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed [+22]
- Marauder [11]
- Marauder [11]
- Ruin [17]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Behemoth [25]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4]
- Marauder [11]
Kayazy Assassins (min) [9]
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4]
The list has exactly 75 points worth of Jacks for 3 free solos. Dropping to 50 points will give me around 21 points to work with since I'm going to have to pay for that 3rd solo that I don't want to cut Should be enough for more Kayazy, but it means I'm cutting Marauders, and that's kinda hard to justify since the list is primarily a Huge base hunter. Have you really gotten work out out Behemoth in such a list? He is uber as a second wave (I guess) without threat extensions (and no access to pathfinder) what is the idea - shooting so they HAVE to close?
Edit - my bad - now I see Sorscha0. Dumb Dumb Dumb.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 16, 2019 20:47:07 GMT
Edit - my bad - now I see Sorscha0. Dumb Dumb Dumb. lol, no problem man. That package is one of my favorite pet combos, at KC Behemoth one rounded a Woldwrath under Baldur. He was basically Fire support until the Woldwrath got too close (and that was before Sorscha_0). I also like the idea that between Butcher, Ruin and a marshaled Behemoth plus the Adjunct I'm pretty much set for Magical Weapons (and the Grymkin matchup). The thing with Behemoth is that he needs time to make back his 25 points, so I don't mind shooting 2 or 3 rounds with him before charging in. Still need to put this on the table. |
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Post by sand20go on Jan 16, 2019 21:30:07 GMT
Edit - my bad - now I see Sorscha0. Dumb Dumb Dumb. lol, no problem man. That package is one of my favorite pet combos, at KC Behemoth one rounded a Woldwrath under Baldur. He was basically Fire support until the Woldwrath got too close (and that was before Sorscha_0). I also like the idea that between Butcher, Ruin and a marshaled Behemoth plus the Adjunct I'm pretty much set for Magical Weapons (and the Grymkin matchup). The thing with Behemoth is that he needs time to make back his 25 points, so I don't mind shooting 2 or 3 rounds with him before charging in. Still need to put this on the table. What I like is that you POTENTIALLY get the piece trading going in a good way. The Mauraders go in <12 inches from the huge bases and put pressure on them to either back up or accept all the tastiness that they do. More likely they engage. You then have Big B, Ruin, and Butcher to retailiate. You definitely are going to want Ruin safe because you likely WILL need to knock off upkeeps. I was frankly amazed (but only cause I didn't take the time to do the math) how tanky Makeda 3. Now she was on full camp but Butcher failed to kill her between spiny growth, the agonizer nearby and battle driven. One of the reasons why I like to fit in Rags or A&H is to allow butcher to efficiently kill anything in the game. |
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Should be enough for more Kayazy, but it means I'm cutting Marauders, and that's kinda hard to justify since the list is primarily a Huge base hunter.